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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
it's available now. i'm looking for a bike that within its price range skimps on the fork but makes up for it with a better drive train. i say this because i'm going to swap the front suspension for a rigid fork. i'm a newbie but the rockhopper 2011 seems to fit the bill.

http://www.specialized.com/ja/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=51636&menuItemId=14121

what is the m4sl full manipulated alloy? is this alloy found on the pricier bikes or the cheaper ones? for example, trek 4300 is cheap but has the same frame found on $1500 mountain bikes. i'm looking for that kind of comparison. a quick google search gave me no results.

i guess sl stands for superlight - but does it compromise durability for weight? how does this frame compare to trek's alpha black aluminum?
 

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It's aluminum. Giving it a name makes people froth at the mouth and pay more because they think they're getting something no one else truly has.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
right...i know it's aluminum...but what quality / treatment of aluminum? i'm familiar with trek so for example there's alpha white (straight tube), alpha black (double butted), alpha red (extra treatment for better strength and lightness). how does the m4sl compare? this seems to be a new offering for the 2011.
 

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You have much bigger to worry about than the al.

If the most perceptive riders are not so bothered, there is a 100% liklihood that you wouldn't note any difference. Basically, if you're hinging your choice on that, or in part, you will never know any difference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
junktrunk said:
You have much bigger to worry about than the al.

If the most perceptive riders are not so bothered, there is a 100% liklihood that you wouldn't note any difference. Basically, if you're hinging your choice on that, or in part, you will never know any difference.
i actually agree with you. i've ridden alpha white vs alpha black and couldn't tell the difference. i'm not a weight weenie. i just wanted to make sure that specialized did not skimp on the frame i.e. make it less durable just to save a few ounces or meet the awesome price of $650. yeah, as long as the frame is durable and doesn't break, i'm cool with it.
 

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I don't know if you find the 4300 frame on $1500 bikes. I thought the 4000 series frames were different from the 6000 series, which are different from 8000 series.

Although it's a good bike, I don't know if it's such an awesome price. Here in the states, we can order comparable internet bikes for less than $400. They don't come with such a fancy paint job, though.
 

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Whether you like spesh or not they are one of the best built bikes on the market. You have nothing to worry about when it comes to frame strength.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
rlouder said:
I don't know if you find the 4300 frame on $1500 bikes. I thought the 4000 series frames were different from the 6000 series, which are different from 8000 series.

Although it's a good bike, I don't know if it's such an awesome price. Here in the states, we can order comparable internet bikes for less than $400. They don't come with such a fancy paint job, though.
trek 4300 for msrp $549 has alpha black aluminum frame which is the same as the one on the trek 6700 for msrp $1369. pretty cool, right?

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/compare/#/6700disc,4300,empty

isn't pennsylvania in the states too? :D technically we're not a state but a commonwealth (whatever that means). i don't know anything about bikesdirect...i definitely cannot do my own wrenching...i like having a reputable company offer customer service support...and yes...i like the paint job too :D but i realize that for many bikesdirect offers quality stuff at great prices :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
larlev said:
Whether you like spesh or not they are one of the best built bikes on the market. You have nothing to worry about when it comes to frame strength.
great! i'm open to spesh. my prior bikes have been trek, i've had good experience with trek, i'm familiar with them. but the rockhopper 2011 at 650 is a way, way better deal than the trek 6000 2010 for 820. cheaper + better components.

i'll call up specialized on monday and see if m4sl is "better" than m4. i know it makes no difference but i just want to know for modest bragging rights :p
 

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M4sl probably similar to or a new version of M4

M4 is a aluminium alloy that has in it:
* 1.2% Silicon (Si)
* 1.0% Copper (Cu)
* 1.6% Magnesium (Mg)
* 0.3% Vanadium (V)
 

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common_man said:
trek 4300 for msrp $549 has alpha black aluminum frame which is the same as the one on the trek 6700 for msrp $1369. pretty cool, right?

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/compare/#/6700disc,4300,empty
If you look at the geometry specs, you will see that the frames are different.

common_man said:
isn't pennsylvania in the states too? :D technically we're not a state but a commonwealth (whatever that means). i don't know anything about bikesdirect...i definitely cannot do my own wrenching...i like having a reputable company offer customer service support...and yes...i like the paint job too :D but i realize that for many bikesdirect offers quality stuff at great prices :thumbsup:
The bike you linked in the first post is a non-US model, so I assumed you were from elsewhere.

The comparable bike I was referring to is the Forge. They are located in your commonwealth.
 

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common_man said:
what is the m4sl full manipulated alloy? is this alloy found on the pricier bikes or the cheaper ones? for example, trek 4300 is cheap but has the same frame found on $1500 mountain bikes. i'm looking for that kind of comparison. a quick google search gave me no results.
Specialized uses the names A1, M4, M5 for increasingly higher-end alloys that they use on their frames. They play the details close to the vest, as they want you to believe they use some magic formula that no other bike manufacturer has access to.

M5 is their current high-end alloy. You find it on the more expensive bikes.

M4 is middle-of-the-road, but is actually quite good. My M4 Rockhopper frame is noticeably lighter in weight than my A1 Rockhopper frame. Personally, I am happy with either M4 or M5 when buying Specialized.

A1 is what you find in their low-end bikes like the Hardrock.

Sorry, but I do not know the specific details of the three alloys. I can't translate them into industry-standard numbers.
 

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JonathanGennick said:
Specialized uses the names A1, M4, M5 for increasingly higher-end alloys that they use on their frames. They play the details close to the vest, as they want you to believe they use some magic formula that no other bike manufacturer has access to.

M5 is their current high-end alloy. You find it on the more expensive bikes.

M4 is middle-of-the-road, but is actually quite good. My M4 Rockhopper frame is noticeably lighter in weight than my A1 Rockhopper frame. Personally, I am happy with either M4 or M5 when buying Specialized.

A1 is what you find in their low-end bikes like the Hardrock.

Sorry, but I do not know the specific details of the three alloys. I can't translate them into industry-standard numbers.
.

I remember when they came out with the duralcan in their rims and cranks( I think) it was a huge thing to do. Many companies tried back in the day and couldn't get it right.
The frames built with the duralcan were light strong and is what started the metal matrix way of building frames....correct me if I'm wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
rlouder said:
If you look at the geometry specs, you will see that the frames are different.
i'm glad you brought this up because i meant to ask...

what do people mean when they say the 6000 series has a "better" geometry than the 4000 series. my understanding is that the 4000 is for recreation and beginners whereas the 6000 is for intermediate. so it's more about handling / fit posture i.e. an intermediate rider is going have a more aggressive position and need different kind of handling. a recreational rider may prefer higher handlebars & "easier" steering. so what is "better" depends on the rider.

otherwise i'd imagine if trek has the geometry down they just give the same geometry for all the bikes. just my guess. i'm sure the 6000 is probably a bit more durable because of the geometry but the actual tubing and frame materials are the same for the 4300 and the 6700. please correct me if i'm wrong on this because it'll help me make decisions.

thanks for all your feedback. i appreciate it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
JonathanGennick said:
Specialized uses the names A1, M4, M5 for increasingly higher-end alloys that they use on their frames. They play the details close to the vest, as they want you to believe they use some magic formula that no other bike manufacturer has access to.

M5 is their current high-end alloy. You find it on the more expensive bikes.

M4 is middle-of-the-road, but is actually quite good. My M4 Rockhopper frame is noticeably lighter in weight than my A1 Rockhopper frame. Personally, I am happy with either M4 or M5 when buying Specialized.

A1 is what you find in their low-end bikes like the Hardrock.

Sorry, but I do not know the specific details of the three alloys. I can't translate them into industry-standard numbers.
thanks for the excellent information. it seems like the m4sl is a great mix of durability and lightness. now i know all that i wanted to know about the frame material.
 

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common_man said:
otherwise i'd imagine if trek has the geometry down they just give the same geometry for all the bikes. just my guess. i'm sure the 6000 is probably a bit more durable because of the geometry but the actual tubing and frame materials are the same for the 4300 and the 6700. please correct me if i'm wrong on this because it'll help me make decisions.

thanks for all your feedback. i appreciate it.
The 4300 and 6700 do not use the same frame. they may use the same type of aluminum, but that doesn't mean they're identical. There are numerous other factors that make the frames different - geometry for one. Tube thickness and butting for another. All of these factors will make for a lighter frame on the 6700. Geometry has nothing to do with frame strength, the tubing and type of construction do.

All in all, don't worry about what aluminum alloy the bike has. Buy the bike you want...you won't notice the difference anyway.
 
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