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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There seems to be a secret club in the Boise area. It's a club where the members get to decide who is or isn't allowed to ride on public land. What's the deal with not letting everyone in the loop on where certain trails are?

Steve
 

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Wandervans
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secret club?

I don't know if you would call it a secret club, but a result of the area with a lot of trails that are not mapped and only known by a few people and those trails are very hard to find sometimes too. It can be harder to describe where to find these trails, it is hard enought telling people how to find dry creek which is really obvious!

Ride, explore, and meet more people!

Come to Tour de Fat on August 28th maybe you can hookup with some new people!

Chris
 

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15+ years on the trails and still learning

sumac said:
There seems to be a secret club in the Boise area. It's a club where the members get to decide who is or isn't allowed to ride on public land. What's the deal with not letting everyone in the loop on where certain trails are?

Steve
I don't really think its a secret club. I am slowly learning that many trails I have been riding for years have names! Who'd of thought. Any way I thinkit is sooo awesome that I am still discovering new rides every year. And I have been riding in the foothills and bogus for 15+ years.

-= Adam
 

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Politically Incorrect
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alindley said:
I don't really think its a secret club. I am slowly learning that many trails I have been riding for years have names! Who'd of thought. Any way I thinkit is sooo awesome that I am still discovering new rides every year. And I have been riding in the foothills and bogus for 15+ years.

-= Adam
Not only that, many of the trails have 2, or even 3 names. So that 'new' trail you hear about could be one you've already ridden several times. ;)
 

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Back of the pack fat guy
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expand your horizons

sumac said:
There seems to be a secret club in the Boise area. It's a club where the members get to decide who is or isn't allowed to ride on public land. What's the deal with not letting everyone in the loop on where certain trails are?

Steve
Lighten up. There's no conspiracy to "hide" trails. You just need to expand your horizons by meeting new people and alterning your schedule to join others. Daryl (mtbkrider98) and Chris (smilycook) post group rides on the board all the time. Show up. Bring beer. Be nice. And most of all, don't post whiny stuff like this - it doesn't make anyone want to share.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Earthpig said:
Lighten up. There's no conspiracy to "hide" trails.
Really? Show me one example of a Stack Rock location question that didn't get brushed off. I honestly can't hang on a group ride, but I can certainly waste an entire Saturday having fun on the trail and going at my pace. I attended the IMBA slideshow at REI. Part of the show was some footage of the Stack Rock trail and when I asked about it (face to face) I was told by Chris Cook and Dan (could be mistaken on the name) that: "we don't want too many people riding this trail". Come on people, this is the head SWIMBA guy saying this stuff right in front of the IMBA reps. If this isn't collusion, what is it?

From this post:
Irishbuddha said:
I wasn't thinking and probably shouldn't have mentioned it. We need to keep the numbers low on these trails to keep peace.
So it's OK for some people to ride this obviously private land illegally but we better keep the numbers down so the owner doesn't notice? This doesn't strike you as a statement focused on keeping this illegal trail open for a certain group of people but closed to all others?

Earthpig said:
And most of all, don't post whiny stuff like this - it doesn't make anyone want to share.
What's the downside to posting a "whiny" question like this? It's not like there's a free-flow of information that will now cease. I've paid my SWIMBA and IMBA dues and I work on trails, why exactly am I not entitled to know why this kind of elitism is being practiced?

Steve
 

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You could also find them yourself

You know you could also spend a saturday and go discover new trails at your own pace as well. I was really interested in Stack rock myself and so I decided to go up tehre and spend the day exploring and finding some good loops on my own. In many ways I think it is more fun that way.

On sunday I am going to ride up hard guy and try and find the connection trails to stack rock.

I know I am a pretty slow climber so I too am hesitant on joining group rides. But usually there are just enough clues to lead you in the right direction. I guarantee that if look through these forums and then head up the mountain you will see where the stack rock trail heads are and you can figure out the rest from there. Thats what I did. And now I am going up there once a week and finding more and more places to ride.

Just beware that if you decend for mopre than 4 or 5 miles with no loop found you should probably just head back up or you could end up some place you can't ride through.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
alindley said:
You know you could also spend a saturday and go discover new trails at your own pace as well.
I'm already there, I plan to post a GPS map once I have the time to make it look good.

Please understand, this isn't about one trail. This is about what I believe is a systematic effort to keep "the rest of us" off the trails that a few people think they alone are entitled to. I'm leaving plenty of room in my mind to change my thoughts. Can someone give me a reason to not continue believing these things? Is my SWIMBA money wasted?

Steve
 

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For whatever it's worth, please realize that one overzealous yahoo on a bouncy bike intersecting on one land owner having a bad day can shut down the whole gig for the rest of us.
 

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alindley said:
On sunday I am going to ride up hard guy and try and find the connection trails to stack rock.
Uhm, you do know Stack Rock is west of Bogus Basin Road, right? ;-) The top of Hardguy is a ways from your destination. After you get to the top of Hardguy, you've got another 1500 feet of climbing to Doe Point. Might as well head towards Shafer Butte, or come down something on the front side of Bogus. There's some nice sigle track that drops about 1000 feet to the lower lodge, which I call the Lodge Trail. There's a big blue sign saying lodge, but only if you go past it and look over your shoulder, because the sign is facing the wrong way. As a bonus, there is a spigot behind the lodge where you can refill your CamelBack. The only other route I've taken from HG to upper BBRoad is to descend a few miles down Dry Creek, then hang a right where the trail crosses an ORV trail, and climb that trail back up to BB Road at around 5400'. I think this route is tougher than just climbing the road to Doe Point, and I always get lost in the maze of _steep_ ORV trails near the top. If you descend DC all the way to BB Road, you've got a couple thousand feet of climbing up BB Road to reach dirt.

Camelback-Hardguy-DoePoint-LodgeTrail-SweetConnie-Camelback is a 35 mile loop with about 5000' of climbing. If you add in some of the connector loops, you are looking at another 10+ miles and 2000+ of climbing, if you don't get too lost.

Justen
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Earthpig said:
Yes, it is.
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or serious. The web is horrible for relaying emotion. Do you feel SWIMBA is worth the individual contribution?

Steve
 

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justen said:
Uhm, you do know Stack Rock is west of Bogus Basin Road, right? ;-) The top of Hardguy is a ways from your destination.

Justen
Yeah I know. I was looking for a 30+ ride with a strong climb. And I figure that HG is a good path up to bogus. Just being a little adventurous. Thanks for the pointers though.
 

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sumac said:
There seems to be a secret club in the Boise area. It's a club where the members get to decide who is or isn't allowed to ride on public land. What's the deal with not letting everyone in the loop on where certain trails are?

Steve
There does seem to be a little bit of the elitism, keep it to ourselves mentality among a few. however, whenever I've brought up wanting to ride these higher/ BB area trails with folks who ride them, they've always invited me to come along on their next trip up. I thought of it more as wanting to introduce me and guide me around and save me a lot of possible wasted time and energy getting lost or at least sidetracked.

I spent a Saturday a few years back exploring BB trails, and really had a lot of fun. And got my butt kicked by the end of the day. Not sure I found anything that would make a decent loop ride, we just kept riding around, up, down, and finally rolled back to town. I'd rather hitch a ride with those who know the ropes up there than wander on my own. But that's probably just me. I'm not terrific with directions; some guys I've ridden with find their way like a human gps.

And of course, Figwirth was waiting at the bottom.

Chris Brown
 

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You're welcome to come any time on a group ride

sumac said:
There seems to be a secret club in the Boise area. It's a club where the members get to decide who is or isn't allowed to ride on public land. What's the deal with not letting everyone in the loop on where certain trails are?

Steve
Please come out on a ride

I got taken on rides by folks such as Nels and Smily and shown some good alternatives to just riding the foothills. I'm appreciative of others because my "inventory" of trails to choose from is growing because of other people.

I'm also a lazy FK, and would rather be just be invited to and taken on these rides than do the map work that Chris does pretty darn well....

Some of these trails actually are NOT that obvious.

Being respectful of others who reasonably want to make sure these trails stay open, maintained, uncrowded (at least relative to a lot of the foothills), I'm more than happy to have folks come on a ride. I post these because I think it's more fun to ride with others.
 

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For me, no

sumac said:
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or serious. The web is horrible for relaying emotion. Do you feel SWIMBA is worth the individual contribution?

Steve
Steve, I'm being a little of both. For me personally, I don't think a SWIMBA membership is in the cards. I volunteer my time to do trailwork every year and I volunteered pretty heavily for the Foothills levy campaign a couple of years ago, but other than that, what little free time I have is spent either with my family or on a bike. I think SWIMBA means well, but I have heard one too many stories of inter-group politics within SWIMBA to want to be a member.

As for yourself, if the local SWIMBA VP/ IMBA rep told you that he would not tell you where a trail is (as you say he did), you have to ask yourself whether or not it's worth it to you to be a SWIMBA member.

Getting back to your first post, a high school teacher told me a loooooong time ago that "it's easier to catch flies with honey than it is with vinegar." I was reminded of that saying when I read your "what gives?" post. I still say that you should show up for posted group rides as the way to learn the Bogus/Stack trails. I don't know about you, but it's easier for me to learn a trail system if I have a guide. It's also very hard to try to tell someone where to go ride if (1) you don't know how good of a rider that person is and (2) don't know what the extent of their current trail system knowledge is. I personally certainly don't want the potential liability of providing the wrong trail directions to someone (and they get lost) or getting someone I don't know in over their heads on a trail they can't handle (and they get hurt or have a heart attack). If you do go on a group ride, don't be overly concerned about your speed. IMHO, if someone is posting on here to organize a group ride, then that person is obligated to accept everyone who shows up and MUST, by all means, WAIT at trail junctions and intersections and the top of climbs for the slowest rider during that group ride. (That's in bold because I have heard a couple different stories about somebody posting group rides on here and then dropping and leaving riders who don't know the trails.) Mtnbkrdr98 posts a group ride on here at least once a week for the Stack trails. He and I haven't ridden together yet, so I can't tell you what kind of rider he is, but he is definitely enthusiatic. As I said, show up, be nice, ride hard and you'll get the trails figured out.
 

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Barneys Unite!
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Group rides may be great, but like Sumac, I can't

always hang with a group, and I don't want to hold others up. Most of the group rides that I've seen posted state they are "intermediate", and I'm pretty sure that I'm a beginner both in skills and endurance (yes, even at 52 years old).

I recently joined SWIMBA because I love mountain biking and want to help support the trails around here, but I have to admit that I've had much the same feeling as Sumac when I have read some of the Stack Rock posts. Maybe that was unintentional, maybe not. I would really hate to think that an organization I am supporting is somehow trying to restrict access to public trails, or restrict access to better riders only.

Just my two cents, and I'm trying to stay open minded.
 

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Wandervans
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your swimba membership is worth it!

Sorry about not repling earlier, I was in washington and oregon this past weekend. I rode Mt. Saint Helens which is a mighty cool place to ride, and is a must do!

A question was posed "Is my SWIMBA membership worth it?"

The answer is definatly yes! We do a lot of stuff in the valley, but since stack rock has specifically come up lets talk about what SWIMBA has done at Stack.

1) Signed an MOU with the forest service to allow legal trailwork to occur on all the FS land in the stack rock area. This agreement has made it legal to build Eastside(4.2 miles of singletrack) and also clear trails with chainsaws, which makes it much easier to keep the trail open. Twister trail is also in the works, we are about 1/2 mile from completion, you are gonna love this one.

2) Mapped the Stack Rock trails to ensure when and if the logging project starts up at stack, as many trails are preserved as possible.

3) Applied for a park service grant to create a trail system and obtain easements. We are a good canidate so I hope we recieve it! We have also been pushing ridge to rivers and ada county to work on easements, they are more experianced than the FS on the easement issue.

Now a little persepective:
The Stack rock trails are mostly on FS land but there are also a number of trails that cross private land. We have no easements for any of these trails that cross private land and I would hate for the land owners to get pissed at bikers. The landowners know about the trails but have just turned a blind eye so far, but I can't gaurentee anything. We are not trying to restrict access, but just work within the current situation. You hopefully should see a map in 2 to 3 years when we iron everything out. Hopefully we will get the park service grant and move forward with easements and the rest of the trail plan. In the plan we also want to include more beginner trails to give people a good place to learn how to ride since the valley is either up or down. Private grounds is the big reason to go up there with someone else so you know where you are and when you are on private grounds. Oh and to not access the trails by going near the house.

Plus it is so easy to get lost up there, if you don't know where you are going!

Most of the trails up there have been built by dan and dave and I consider them the ultimate authority on that area. I think dan understands the private property issues and wants to make sure the trails are kept open for everyone. He also knows about all the meetings and other items that are going on behind closed doors. Just like anything with the FS there is a long process to go through! IMBA is almost two years into the Owyhee thing and we are almost at the public meeting stage, and that goverment project is fully funded.

What are some other things just off the top of my head:
1) Sprockids - a program to get young kids excited about mountain biking, this is a structured summer and afterschool program. Currently we fill every class we create.
2) Seamens Gulch Trail: Worked with Ada County to get it constructed, and also just recieved a trail grant to sign the entire trail and install a kiosk at the trailhead.
3) Maintain hulls gulch and working on building an adopt a trail program
..this is the what I got off the top of my head.

Well I am the new president of SWIMBA and I realize there can be some politics, but that is true with any group as big as ours. We advocate for mountain biking across southwest idaho and are the group land managers and developers come to to address mountain biking issues. Are we perfect or beyond error, definatly not. Could we do more? Definatly but we need your help! If riding trails is important to you than SWIMBA and IMBA are both clubs you should be a part of. I hope as pres we can eliminate some of the political things and grow SWIMBA!

Don't forget beer drinking to benefit the trails commences on saturday around 11am at tour de fat. Go to swimba.org to find out more.

Also public meeting for the foothills trails this wednesday at the library from 5:30pm to 8pm, please attend and bring your friends!!!!!!!!!

Try to hook up with daryl for a group ride I am swamped right now.

Thanks,
Chris
SWIMBA Pres
State Rep for IMBA
 

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You need to ride!

"There seems to be a secret club in the Boise area. It's a club where the members get to decide who is or isn't allowed to ride on public land. What's the deal with not letting everyone in the loop on where certain trails are?"

Steve

It really is a secret society. To join all you have to do is watch for the "Black Hellio Copter" that Helen Chenwitch is piloting and get on board!

I have probably been one of the worst at keeping my mouth shut and for some good reasons. One, I dont' know everyone on this board and don't know if you are the type that is going to piss off some land owner. When given a chance to ride with others, if our schedule work out I will usually show someone new trails. Earthpig is a perfect example of someone I met through this board and should some new trials. He has been great at sharing what he knows.

I am a little confused by this whole topic. What ever happened to mtn bikers sense of adventure. Most of the trails I found on my own or in the company of my favorite riding partners - two dogs. I have had to carry my bike out of more drainages than I can count. That is part of earing the fun tickets. One of my favorite rides this year was in Pocatello in which I got lost for two hours before finding my way home. I found several new trails.

If you want to learn the trails at Bogus or Stack Rock, put your bike on car and go to where you see a bunch of cars parked. Get your bike off and look for trails and follow the tire tracks. That is what most of the rest of us did and it was a hoot! If you see someone on the trial ask them for directions, most will share.

But what ever you do, get on your bike and ride!
 
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