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Discussion Starter #1
I'm currently running a 2000 Z1 with 5" springs and I still get beat up in rock gardens. So I'm in the market for a newer fork that does a better job on the brain rattling chatter. I'd like to stay with a 5", but I still have v's and may or may not switch over to discs at the same time - seems like most 5 inchers are disc only.

I'm considering an '05 Marzocchi mx pro eta. It's a 120mm with v mounts and has SSVF which, supposedly does better on small bumps. Here's what they say,

'SSvf is Marzocchi's "Speed Sensitive Valve Floating" with a specially designed Floating Valve that further enhances the SSV concept. The floating valve instantly lets oil flow through the first valve circuit with no resistance providing greater initial and small bump sensitivity.'

Anyone have experience with this fork? Any other recommendations?

Thanks, Z
 

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Meh.
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the73z said:
I'm currently running a 2000 Z1 with 5" springs and I still get beat up in rock gardens. So I'm in the market for a newer fork that does a better job on the brain rattling chatter. I'd like to stay with a 5", but I still have v's and may or may not switch over to discs at the same time - seems like most 5 inchers are disc only.

I'm considering an '05 Marzocchi mx pro eta. It's a 120mm with v mounts and has SSVF which, supposedly does better on small bumps. Here's what they say,

'SSvf is Marzocchi's "Speed Sensitive Valve Floating" with a specially designed Floating Valve that further enhances the SSV concept. The floating valve instantly lets oil flow through the first valve circuit with no resistance providing greater initial and small bump sensitivity.'

Anyone have experience with this fork? Any other recommendations?

Thanks, Z
SSV and SSVF have issues with high speed stutters or closely spaced bumps. It causes the travel to spike. The MX Pro really isn't a DH type fork.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
XSL_WiLL said:
SSV and SSVF have issues with high speed stutters or closely spaced bumps. It causes the travel to spike. The MX Pro really isn't a DH type fork.
This is good to know. But I'm not really doing DH type riding - more like fire road bombing and single track. Any other recommendations for this type of riding?
 

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Freshly Fujified
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Limited Choices

Given what you're asking for (specifically a 120 mm fork with V-brake bosses) your choices will be limited. The good news is that you probably picked an ideal fork for your needs right out of the gate. You can find them on closeout at $250, maybe even less. Here's a link to one at that price through a vendor I can recommend:

http://downshiftcycles.netfirms.com...t_info&osCsid=8391d16bdd970ed5213d50c99a2acc2

Best wishes,

Bob
 

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the73z said:
This is good to know. But I'm not really doing DH type riding - more like fire road bombing and single track. Any other recommendations for this type of riding?
SSV SSVF are one hit ported dampers. Look for Marzocchi forks w/ HSCV dampers. Older Fox Vanilla R's had V brakes posts - possibly look into a Fox Vanilla as well.
 

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Time is not a road.
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How about a RS Recon? They'll have 130mm of travel and brake bosses. Also, the Marathon series forks come in 120mm of travel. Very good forks and they have bosses to boot.

Heck, if you're intrested, I'll sell you mine as I'm not using it. It's a 2004, ridden for one season. PM me if you're interested.
 

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Look at the zokes xc. Comes with v-brake mounts and disc mounts. Lots of adjustments. You can get the 05 model at wheel world for $399.
I like the ETA since you can lower the front end for climbs, and the lockout is great for out of the saddle efforts or those road sections you might encounter.
 

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the73z said:
I'm currently running a 2000 Z1 with 5" springs and I still get beat up in rock gardens. So I'm in the market for a newer fork that does a better job on the brain rattling chatter. I'd like to stay with a 5", but I still have v's and may or may not switch over to discs at the same time - seems like most 5 inchers are disc only.

I'm considering an '05 Marzocchi mx pro eta. It's a 120mm with v mounts and has SSVF which, supposedly does better on small bumps. Here's what they say,

'SSvf is Marzocchi's "Speed Sensitive Valve Floating" with a specially designed Floating Valve that further enhances the SSV concept. The floating valve instantly lets oil flow through the first valve circuit with no resistance providing greater initial and small bump sensitivity.'

Anyone have experience with this fork? Any other recommendations?

Thanks, Z
Is your current fork a Z1 CR or Z1 Drop Off ??

If it's Z1 CR (or Z1 QR20) it allready has the desired HSCV damping and the MX Pro ETA would be a down grade in terms of damping performance. 2000 was the only year Marzocchi had separately adjustable compression and rebound damping in their top end Z1 forks. Some feel they were harsh. I'd suggest you set the compression damping to minimum and use lightest possible oil at least in the leg where you adjust compression damping.

In case your fork is Z1 Drop Off it has basically the same damping system as in the MX Pro.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
TeXe said:
Is your current fork a Z1 CR or Z1 Drop Off ??

If it's Z1 CR (or Z1 QR20) it allready has the desired HSCV damping and the MX Pro ETA would be a down grade in terms of damping performance. 2000 was the only year Marzocchi had separately adjustable compression and rebound damping in their top end Z1 forks. Some feel they were harsh. I'd suggest you set the compression damping to minimum and use lightest possible oil at least in the leg where you adjust compression damping.

In case your fork is Z1 Drop Off it has basically the same damping system as in the MX Pro.
It is a Z1 CR. I hadn't thought of using a lighter oil, but I have cosidered putting in soft springs. This may have been my initial problem since medium springs are for riders 145lbs up and soft springs are for riders 120lbs - 155. Again I'm 145 - right at the bottom of the range for the medium spring.

Any idea how much my Z1 CR weighs with 5" springs? As of late I've been considering pulling my resources together to go with discs and therefore getting an '05 AM 1 or '05 AM SL, or possibly an '06 AM 1... but it weighs over a 1/2 lb more than last year's and more than a lb more than the SL. I'm not a weight weenie but I've got to draw the line somewhere. What I have is about as heavy as I want to go - but I can't remember how much that is.

Thanks, Z
 

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the73z said:
Any idea how much my Z1 CR weighs with 5" springs?
I have the same fork in my other bike. I haven't weighted it myself but it should be very close to 2kg (= 4,4lbs).
 

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carpe mañana
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Before you go out spending money on a new fork, when was the last time you changed your oil in your Z1? That fork has got good dampers in there, it shouldn't be rattling you around over stutter bumps on fire roads. What weight oil you have in there right now? You said you are 145? You've got what springs in there?

_MK
 

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I agree ...

...for what you are looking for, you may already have the ideal fork. Assuming all functions are working, tuning & maintenance is everything. As mentioned above, oil viscosity and springs can be played with. You can also mix springs (i.e. 1-med, 1-heavy) to fine tune the mix. The older Z1 is still a great fork. Also, what tire pressure do you run? It is the most basic suspension you have, but in rock gardens lower pressure will work wonders. I weigh 150 lbs and never have problems running 28 lbs in front.
 

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Also, in a rock garden, a very fast rebound setting is necessary to prevent the fork from 'packing' up. Packing up is a term used to describe when the fork can't rebound fully from full compression by the time the fork encounters the next hit, so the fork starts to jack-hammer your arms badly. At your weight, you'll probably need lighter oil to get the rebound quick enough for you.
 

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Alpine Rider (Italy)
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the73z said:
Anyone have experience with this fork? Any other recommendations?
do not change your fork :) it's a little flexy but it works very well.
you can tune it in many ways: decrease oil weight, decrease spring rate , remove air.
you could try in this order:
1 - minimum oil level (about 55mm from the top, stock sae7.5) + standard springs.
2 - removing air: screw the top caps when the fork is slightly compressed (about 2 inches). this is a sort of negative spring , it provides better small bumps compliance and helps you to get full travel.
3 - softer springs paired with sae5 (always experimenting with oil levels and less air)
 

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carpe mañana
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30x26 said:
do not change your fork :) it's a little flexy but it works very well.
you can tune it in many ways: decrease oil weight, decrease spring rate , remove air.
you could try in this order:
1 - minimum oil level (about 55mm from the top, stock sae7.5) + standard springs.
2 - removing air: screw the top caps when the fork is slightly compressed (about 2 inches). this is a sort of negative spring , it provides better small bumps compliance and helps you to get full travel.
3 - softer springs paired with sae5 (always experimenting with oil levels and less air)
I would advise against the suggestion number 2. It sounds good in theory but several people have tried it (who were too light for stock Z1 springs) and reported the compression stroke losing quality when this was done. A heavier negative spring would be better, but swapping for a lighter main spring would be ideal.

_MK
 

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Elitest thrill junkie
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One note, the 2000 marzocchis had compression and rebound. The Z1CR is probably what you have, and that compression cartridge makes them more harsh. Marzocchi did this for the year 2000 only, and discontinued it after that year. The "compression-adjustable" cart had a finite sized orofice that it used to adjust the compression, this made it harsher than the year before and after Z1s, so some of the people with these forks drilled holes in the compression cartridge to eliminate this problem. This would definitely manifest itself in a rock garden. At this point, you'd probably be better of getting a new 6" Z1 FR, but if the 2000 Z1CR was my fork, and I really wanted to stick with that fork and make it work, I'd drill the holes in the cartridge.
 

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MK_ said:
I would advise against the suggestion number 2. It sounds good in theory but several people have tried it (who were too light for stock Z1 springs) and reported the compression stroke losing quality when this was done. A heavier negative spring would be better, but swapping for a lighter main spring would be ideal.

_MK
I'm going to second MK's advice here. I tried this and it made the fork feel like total [email protected] I don't know if it screws up the pressure acting on the shims in the HSCV (not allowing them to close fully after compression?), but something was majorly not right with the fork until I screwed the top caps back on at full extension. Not recommended!
 

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bikerx40 said:
I'm going to second MK's advice here. I tried this and it made the fork feel like total [email protected] I don't know if it screws up the pressure acting on the shims in the HSCV (not allowing them to close fully after compression?), but something was majorly not right with the fork until I screwed the top caps back on at full extension. Not recommended!
obviously i respect your opinions.
i rided with less air for 3-4 years and noticed an improvement, mine was a z3 100mm 2001, not an hscv 130mm.
claudefr , the guy who explained in this board how tst really works, rided for years on a z1 130mm with less air. i tried his fork and it wasn't crap :) i'm not sure about the year of production of his fork.
imho removing a bit of air is a fine tune not a major solution. it helps you to get full travel and increase small bump compliance (if rebound is fast enought). probably it doesn't always work but i'd give it a try, it's fast and cheap :)
coming back to the subject first of all i'd choose the springs (soft paired with sae 5, 1 soft+1medium paired with old sae 7.5 or new sae 5) to get 20-25% of sag without precharge, then i'd play with oil levels, then i'd play with air volume to see what happens
sorry for my english :)
 

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30x26 said:
obviously i respect your opinions.
i rided with less air for 3-4 years and noticed an improvement, mine was a z3 100mm 2001, not an hscv 130mm.
claudefr , the guy who explained in this board how tst really works, rided for years on a z1 130mm with less air. i tried his fork and it wasn't crap :) i'm not sure about the year of production of his fork.
2001MCR, and before a1999DropOff. 45mm oil level, atmospheric pressure at half travel. But with the correct spring rate! It was done only to reduce progressivity (I'm a light rider...).
I'm with bikerx40 and MK_ that otherwise it'll compromise the compression curve.
I'm also with Jayem, I'll try fresh oil if it's dirty and then I'll enlarge the orifice on the bottom of the cartridge.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Tomorrow the fork goes in for soft springs and an overhaul. I've been advised against using lighter than stock oil, but we'll see how the soft springs work out. As far as I know, there's no air in this fork. But, I will take into consideration drilling out the compression cartridge - depending on how the soft springs effect the ride.

Thanks for all your input, Z
 
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