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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Regarding the long climb (or descent) that leads up to (or down from) the saddle where you can see "the castle" on the AZ Trail section that passes through Colossal Cave Park in Tucson...

A few days ago I was a bit concerned when I saw a several pairs of parallel lines of white spray paint crossing the trail all along the section described above. A few days later I found that the lines were guides for digging 6-8" deep trenches across the trail in several locations. I am hoping that this is part of a process and was not the end design. It looks like crap and totally ruins the flow in both directions. I've never seen "trail maintenance" that looks like this. Anyone know anything about this?
 

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The drainages on "your trail" seem harsh when they are first put in. Overbuilt a bit because are meant to be there for years and natural erosion along with use compaction will beat them down soon enough. Granted, a few were not built quite right and are wheel eaters. We are planning to head out soon to fix them.

If you want to check whats going on or better yet help..... http://aztrail-build.org/
 

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I think next week should fix this:

ALONG THE WEST COAST THERE ARE AT LEAST 3 TO 4 SURGES COMING INTO THE WEST COAST IN THE FAST PACIFIC FLOW THIS PERIOD EACH WITH ROUNDS OF HEAVY PRECIPITATION. AT THIS TIME THERE IS REASONABLE AGREEMENT ON THE SHORTWAVES EMBEDDED IN THE FLOW TO COME IN AROUND AT-SUN..MON..TUES AND ANOTHER THURS-FRI WITH MORE TO FOLLOW. MONDAYS SURGE HITS THE ENTIRE COAST FROM VANCOUVER SOUTH TO PT CONCEPTION BUT THEN AS THE HEIGHTS FALL AND THE JET CORE SHIFTS SOUTHWARD THE TARGET AREA WILL BE MORE INTO CENTRAL CA AND SOUTHERN CA TUESDAY ONWARD.

THIS EVENT HAS THE POTENTIAL TO APPROACH OR RIVAL THE JANUARY/FEBRUARY 1998 EL NINO EVENT IN CENTRAL CA AND THE JANUARY 1995 TIME FRAME FOR SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA. QPF TOTALS FROM MODEL GUIDANCE ARE VERY HIGH WITH AN OVERALL RANGE OF 7-12 LIQUID INCHES DURING THIS FORECAST PERIOD OVER COASTAL REGIONS/SIERRA. EXPECT CONSIDERABLY HIGHER AMOUNTS OVER A MULTIDAY PERIOD WITH 10-20 INCH MOUNTAIN AMOUNTS WITH EVEN HIGHER AMOUNTS OVER FAVORABLE TERRAIN. SIERRA MOUNTAIN SNOWS MAY BE IN THE 8-12 FOOT RANGE. AS THE JET CORE SHIFTS SOUTHWARD THE HEAVIER PRECIPITATION WILL BE MORE CONCENTRATED INTO SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA WHERE SIMILAR RAINFALL NUMBERS MAYBE OVER ESPECIALLY FAVORABLE TERRAIN. SOME LOCAL FAVORED TERRAIN AREAS WILL MOST LIKELY APPROACH "20" INCH LIQUID AMOUNTS DURING THIS PERIOD WITH THE EVENT "CONTINUING PAST OUR 7 DAY RANGE", YIELDING EVEN HIGHER TOTALS. VERY HEAVY SNOWS CAN BE EXPECTED OVER HIGHER TERRAIN AND A FLOODING/MUDSLIDE PROBLEMS APPEAR LIKELY. A HEAVY RAIN THREAT FOR ARIZONA APPEARS IN STORE THURSDAY INTO SATURDAY.

If you were around for that El Nino I highlighted above....I was....It started raining in Tucson in late January and did not really stop for an entire month. The Rilito ran big time until March.....and Mt. Lemmon received 4 feet of snow in 2 days time.
 

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Maadjurguer said:
I think next week should fix this:

ALONG THE WEST COAST THERE ARE AT LEAST 3 TO 4 SURGES COMING INTO THE WEST COAST IN THE FAST PACIFIC FLOW THIS PERIOD EACH WITH ROUNDS OF HEAVY PRECIPITATION. AT THIS TIME THERE IS REASONABLE AGREEMENT ON THE SHORTWAVES EMBEDDED IN THE FLOW TO COME IN AROUND AT-SUN..MON..TUES AND ANOTHER THURS-FRI WITH MORE TO FOLLOW. MONDAYS SURGE HITS THE ENTIRE COAST FROM VANCOUVER SOUTH TO PT CONCEPTION BUT THEN AS THE HEIGHTS FALL AND THE JET CORE SHIFTS SOUTHWARD THE TARGET AREA WILL BE MORE INTO CENTRAL CA AND SOUTHERN CA TUESDAY ONWARD.

THIS EVENT HAS THE POTENTIAL TO APPROACH OR RIVAL THE JANUARY/FEBRUARY 1998 EL NINO EVENT IN CENTRAL CA AND THE JANUARY 1995 TIME FRAME FOR SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA. QPF TOTALS FROM MODEL GUIDANCE ARE VERY HIGH WITH AN OVERALL RANGE OF 7-12 LIQUID INCHES DURING THIS FORECAST PERIOD OVER COASTAL REGIONS/SIERRA. EXPECT CONSIDERABLY HIGHER AMOUNTS OVER A MULTIDAY PERIOD WITH 10-20 INCH MOUNTAIN AMOUNTS WITH EVEN HIGHER AMOUNTS OVER FAVORABLE TERRAIN. SIERRA MOUNTAIN SNOWS MAY BE IN THE 8-12 FOOT RANGE. AS THE JET CORE SHIFTS SOUTHWARD THE HEAVIER PRECIPITATION WILL BE MORE CONCENTRATED INTO SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA WHERE SIMILAR RAINFALL NUMBERS MAYBE OVER ESPECIALLY FAVORABLE TERRAIN. SOME LOCAL FAVORED TERRAIN AREAS WILL MOST LIKELY APPROACH "20" INCH LIQUID AMOUNTS DURING THIS PERIOD WITH THE EVENT "CONTINUING PAST OUR 7 DAY RANGE", YIELDING EVEN HIGHER TOTALS. VERY HEAVY SNOWS CAN BE EXPECTED OVER HIGHER TERRAIN AND A FLOODING/MUDSLIDE PROBLEMS APPEAR LIKELY. A HEAVY RAIN THREAT FOR ARIZONA APPEARS IN STORE THURSDAY INTO SATURDAY.

If you were around for that El Nino I highlighted above....I was....It started raining in Tucson in late January and did not really stop for an entire month. The Rilito ran big time until March.....and Mt. Lemmon received 4 feet of snow in 2 days time.
Odd, I posted exactly the same verbage on the KPAC website last night:p
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Didn't know water damage was a problem on this section of trail. Of course I am not an annointed trail expert, so please spare me the condescending and preachy "if you don't like it, too bad, we know best, and besides you should shut up and help" posts*. I just wonder if the trail "improvers" ever do a "before and after" ride and consider if their goals can be accomplished while making less of an impact on the actual riding experience. Seriously, this is along the lines of pre-emptive trail damage.

*Don't assume because you don't know about it that a poster has not done his or her share of trail work. Some of us think service should be done for the sake of it, not for bragging rights or to feel superior.
 

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Elitest thrill junkie
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The NINO!
 

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Sorry, did not realize I was being preachy. You asked what was going on I offered information.

There are some erosion issues on that section of trail, we are trying to be preemptive. I did state that some of the work was not done up to our standards so you are not bringing up something that we are not aware of. I was not at the work event last Sunday but in general one or two of us do ride the sections after we finish the work. BTW I am always trying to recruit people to help with trail work it's not my fault you take it the wrong way :)
 

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:)
Maadjurguer said:
On another note....I think Jrock is going to need a breathing tube for the Sierra snow forecast....more than several feet for sure.
Gotta love Tahoe.

Cold fluff on Tuesday.

Bluebird sidecountry wed/thur.

Southfacing corn harvest today.

10's of feet by the end of next week!
 

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Chris2fur said:
Didn't know water damage was a problem on this section of trail. Of course I am not an annointed trail expert, so please spare me the condescending and preachy "if you don't like it, too bad, we know best, and besides you should shut up and help" posts*. I just wonder if the trail "improvers" ever do a "before and after" ride and consider if their goals can be accomplished while making less of an impact on the actual riding experience. Seriously, this is along the lines of pre-emptive trail damage.

*Don't assume because you don't know about it that a poster has not done his or her share of trail work. Some of us think service should be done for the sake of it, not for bragging rights or to feel superior.
CHris ask over at tucsonmtb.com there are a few AZT builders on that site so I am sure you will get the answer your not looking for right away. My guess is it the same morons who put in the "drainage" on Bugs. I was out there last Saturday and noticed they had about half of those holes dugs and the other have marked for digging and the same thought ran through my head why do they need these.
 

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Nothing like a 10 to 12 foot dump of snow in the Sierra's followed by a really juicy set of Pineapple Express drencher rain storms, with the snow level at 8 to 9000 feet.

It's going to be a good year for fly fishing the Sierras at Hot Creek, near Mammoth. :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I've been assured that the "drainages" are normal procedure and will be a bit harsh at first but will blend in a bit with time. I was a bit paranoid that an alterior motive of slowing down the fast sections was behind these things, but I guess not. Anyway, had a very good ride today on another section of the AZ trail that was very fast and smooth, so thanks to the trail workers despite the occasional irritations...
 

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slugobikes said:
The drainages on "your trail" seem harsh when they are first put in. Overbuilt a bit because are meant to be there for years and natural erosion along with use compaction will beat them down soon enough. Granted, a few were not built quite right and are wheel eaters. We are planning to head out soon to fix them.

If you want to check whats going on or better yet help..... http://aztrail-build.org/
A fellow trail builder and I were out on the AZ Trail south of the Pistol Hill trailhead a couple weeks ago and really loved the ride south to about three miles south of I-10, where we turned around. I did notice the drains that had been built on the descent into the campground just a few miles out. They look a bit like the one pictured. This picture looks like a 14" wide drain that you are claiming is 6-8" deep. They would surely swallow a wheel and cause an endo. What if you scratched two lines, each 14" further out on either side of the existing drain, and then gradually sloped down to the center depth of the existing drain? Then you end up with a gentle undulation that won't flip a rider or even rattle him on the upside down speedbump.

Slugo, are you Mark Flint? I've been wanting to thank you and your crews for the hard and outstanding work your are doing. This trail is my new favorite in Tucson and I also enjoyed riding Robles. I was hoping to return to Tucson from Flagstaff in a few weeks and do some volunteer work on the AZ Trail. I'd really like to borrow some loppers and walk about 10-12 miles of the trail from Pistol Hill and brush back the trail when needed. I about got my shirt torn off several times by several Palo Verde Trees, in addition to many cuts along my legs, even though I was riding the center line of the trail. With permission, I might help prevent some of that from happening for another year or two, depending on how fast the vegetation grows down there. I also want to ride much further south on I-10 on a long out and back.

One last thing. We have been looking at some very cool and functional gates to install along sections of the AZ Trail up here. One style reminds me of the doors on a Delorean sports car. They lift up on a counter-balanced pivot that also has a garage door type spring attached, and they gently fall back down into place by themselves. Therefore, you cannot leave them open. They require little more than one finger to lift them up and ride through before they settle back into place. It's much nicer that those old gates that fall down when you open them and then you have to rewire them to a post after you pass through. This gate is used along the length of the Maah Daah Hey Trail in North Dakota and I have the skematics required to construct them. If we can get a few in place out there, people will surely request funding to add more of them. They are beautiful and functional.
 
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