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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm just wondering what those of us who have ridden the big wheels are thinking about. What are the things you would change on the bikes, what would you do to make them better, how would you do it?
The 29" bikes are here to stay and there are certain things that need to be standardized, ideas we should be able to count on. I am trying to make a base of info to work with.
Thanks for your time and ideas.
Eric Roman
 

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Squalor
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Great idea for a post!

Chainstay length increased on most production bikes!

I have ridden a 29er with short stays (KM - 431mm) and one with longish stays (465mm) and I can not tell any real difference in climbing or "flickability".

Short chainstays allow less room for tire / f. der. clearance.

Short chainstays make for a harsher ride.

Short chainstays on a suspension corrected frame make the bike look awkward with itsy-bitsy space between the rear wheel and the seattube, and huge space b/w the front tire and the dt.

Fat Tire (real 2.3-2.5)!

Nothing new here, nothing to explain

Geared specific, production frame in the $500 range!

No mutant dropouts. Whatever material the mfg chooses (I prefer steel but whatever). Just a regular old bike frame, with reasonable length c/s and good reliable availability!

Thats it from me.

edit: Ok one more...

Downtube / Fork Clearance

Whoever is responsible for it (fork mfgs or frame mfgs), please make the dt/fork crown clearance issue go away!

LP
 

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slime lite tubes. not a big deal, but they are not available for 29er. you can do it yourself, but i am sorta lazy.

other than that, some more time to ride.

naked go-go dancers at all trailheads would be great, too.
 

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Recovering couch patato
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Good thread.

More offset on suspension forks. Even if 38mm is ideal for 26" bikes, the 39mm of the extended 29" fork is just not proportional, and restricts frame designers. Notice how most all rigid 26" forks even run greater offset, typically 43-45mm? 29" wheels, to keep the same handling quickness (trail), require extra offset over 26". Now the larger sized 29"ers get steeper head tube angles to gain back some quickness, but on smaller sizes that would cause toe overlap (toe hitting fron tire). 29" wheels, all else being the same, eat up 31.5mm worth of toe clearance, and smaller bikes don't have that to spare. Over-compensating offset, going like 45mm for 29" forks, would help designers create even better handling smaller sized 29"ers. Already for "medium" bikes this is very much an issue. Often top tubes have to be longer, and handling to be slower than designers would have preferred.

Hub spacing. The 100mm front spacing dates from ancient road bikes. Now we're building hardcore MTB's with the same spacing, and lots of room of that is eaten up by a disc mount lately. Making for flexier wheels. Rear spacing. For decades road bikes have 130mm. MTB's got 135mm. Again, lots taken up by the disc mount, and cassette bodies haven't exactly gotten narrower over time. Rather wider, going from 7 to 8spd around '90 or so.
Upping hub spacing front and rear by some 15/20mm seems more than in order, especially for 29" wheels which have the same rim diameter as road bikes, making spokes have little angle on the nipple to work with.
Weird offsetting on rims may help a little bit, but that's not a solution.

Someone mentioned it with respect to Bontrager, not sure what that was about. Tire-rim standards. Tires seem wide, rims seem undersized. Tires are hard to keep on the rims most of the time. What's up with the 700c standard, why do most tire/rim combo's fit loose enough to throw a tire on a rim from across the room rather than with a bit of help from the tire levers?
 

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Oh, a 12-35t cassette would be very helpful. That, or smaller chainrings (20-30-40?). I prefer the larger cassette.

Chainstays on teh driveside migh have a little dip/bend to give room for the front derailer to work with a 40t outer ring.

Longer cranks. Who ever decided 175mm is the ideal crank length for all humans on MTB's? Did he account for the world population to grow by some 5-10% by the year 2005? If one cranksize is good, why not all use a 19" seat tube? Each framesize should come with it's own crank length. S-165, M-175, L-185, XL-195. Do the math. To keep relative cranklength proportiante with 2" framesize increments, you need about 1cm cranklength increments. Example : S-sized rider with 80cm inseam. M-85cm inseam (2" increment in frame size, 6% increase in inseam. 6% of a 165mm crank is 10mm. If you believe XL's should come with 175mm, then better put ~145mm on S sized bikes. My example works better with scientific research.

Handlebars. Who ever decided an MTB handlebar, regardless of frame design, has to point "up"? Even on cool motobikes often the grips are below the "stem". With a standard of "droopy" bars, head tube can be made longer for ease of frame design towards stiffness.

1.5" headsets actually still make sense for 29", headtubes will after all be shorter anyway.
 

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Not about standardization, but still real : where are the race and mud tires? The DH tire lobby is already rolling, WTB promising something for 2007. 29" is supposed to roll so well, but when the going gets tough, the smarter 26" treads just keep going. With all these middle of the road do-all 2.1" tires, we totally lack small knob fast rollers (Conti Twister) for tacky soil, tall microknobs (Maxxis Minotaur) for wet grass and mud, and and fast ramped knobs (Schwalbe, Michelin) for clean dry race tracks.
 

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Good ones, Cloxxki.

I will quickly throw in my $.02.

We need to be using ~150mm rear hubs and 110 or 120mm front ones. And we need wide chainline (chainrings outboard) low Q factor cranks - gotta keep the front derailleur, chainstays, tire, and chainrings from hitting each other, and wide chainline/low Q cranks would help a lot. The old Ritchey Logic cranks were great that way - new Shimano stuff is ridiculously wide.

Other than that, I agree with pretty much everything LP said.

-Walt
 

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Agree with LP, geared no-nonsense frame. Fisher might do it themselves had they had enough capacity to build bikes to meet demand. I know of one frame in the works, a bit over $500 probably, but well worth it.

UST 29", can we all agree on some ground figures to work with? No-one's making the tire before the standard is there!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
oh yeah

Just the thing that needs to be addressed!

Cloxxki said:
Agree with LP, geared no-nonsense frame. Fisher might do it themselves had they had enough capacity to build bikes to meet demand. I know of one frame in the works, a bit over $500 probably, but well worth it.

UST 29", can we all agree on some ground figures to work with? No-one's making the tire before the standard is there!
 

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Squalor
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jh_on_the_cape said:
naked go-go dancers at all trailheads would be great, too.
(in best voice of royality)

"I hereby deem you my new favorite board member!"

You've kind of been on a roll lately...

Makes me happy

LP
 

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I gave up worrying about the little details years ago...................I just pedal my bike now :D Makes life easier. This is a good thread.
 

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Lightweight, strong race bikes. With all the racer weenies I know weight is the biggest thing holding it back. If you weigh 140 and have a 3 pound heavier bike that is still seen as a disadvantage.

Lightweight Scandium or Carbon hardtail race frame. 3 pound range.

Light weight tires. Sub-525 grams

I think we need the above to be truly recognized with the racer crowd that have trimmed all possible weight from their bodies and are looking at the bike next.

Some type of Haagen Daz Chocolate Peanut Butter insulation doo-hickie/container. Nothing like Ice cream at the top of a big climb. Giddieup!
 

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Walt said:
I will quickly throw in my $.02.

We need to be using ~150mm rear hubs and 110 or 120mm front ones.
-Walt
:) :) :)
 

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Can't we just get Industry9 to make the hubs, so when people order a custom frame anyway, at least they can do all the way? I bet they could leave away 4 spokes per wheel when a proper rim is used.
 

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Cloxxki said:
Can't we just get Industry9 to make the hubs, so when people order a custom frame anyway, at least they can do all the way? I bet they could leave away 4 spokes per wheel when a proper rim is used.
You can get 150 hubs from almost every major manufacturer, most are thru-axle though. Same with 110s.
 

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Great thread!

Sorry, nothing to contribute. Need to get some time in on a 29er first. :D
2melow said:
Some type of Haagen Daz Chocolate Peanut Butter insulation doo-hickie/container. Nothing like Ice cream at the top of a big climb. Giddieup!
I once did a race where the promoter put little signs on the major climb. They said stuff like "Warm beer and pork rinds at the top!" Made me start to gag just thinking about it. Ice cream sounds much better. ;)

Cheers!
-Ian
 

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DiscoCowboy
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Tire variety

big knobs, small knobs, more knobs, less knobs, mud, dirt, racing, DH...

More importantly is education. The majority of people (aka average consumers) don't understand a 29er from a 26er from a 700c, throw in cross bikes and it's all over.

There are no ads from Foxxx, Marzocchi, Trek, Cannondale, (insert major bike/component companies here) and with the exception of Fisher there are no 29er bikes someone can walk into a bike store and buy. Until this happens 29ers will be more of a niche market, which then leads to the proverbial double edged sword that will have many people whining, more stuff but no longer the crazy guy on that wacky big 29er.

Great idea Eric, good luck!
-j
 

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For me...it's tires. I would love to see a big Exiwolf. My current Exi's are very good tires, but they would be even better a bit bigger.. :)


R.
 

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Awesome Thread

I agree w/ all who have said tires!! I would love a real 2.3 and I would love to start seeing more of my favorite tires in 29" versions. Like the Hutchinson Spider. That tires rules in NC singletrack. I also second the notion for a true UST wheel/tire combo. A 6" suspension design/frame/fork would be pretty neat as well. Also pretty much agree w/ what LP has said. Cloxxki has good points about the cassettes as well. A 35 tall cog would seriously be useful on some of the switchback climbs where momentum can be an issue!

I would also like to see Kegorators at check points in 24 hr races which have good dark beer only for SS'ers and 29'ers haha. Like a members only club, we can even bring back the members only jackets! Joking aside good thread!! This is very interesting stuff!
 
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