[rmac]

For a long time I thought it was chainstay length but I am now thinking reach is the more important number. I have also assumed wheel size makes a difference too.

For reference I have a large 2016 Ibis Mojo 3 which is significantly easier to handle off low speed drops compared to my 2018 large Guerilla Gravity Megatrail. Very different bikes with really different reach numbers. Newer bikes mostly have long reach numbers and I am afraid I will struggle with them similar to how I struggle with the GG MT.

Better technique would probably help too, I know.

 

[Sanchofula]

Technique

 

[Rod]

I've noticed the biggest difference in chainstay lengths between my bikes.

Longest - freight train and can't wheelie
middle ground - yeah, i can wheelie, but not great
Shortest - no problems with wheelies

All 29 inch wheels. FYI, shortest chainstay bike has the most reach currently.

 

[Fleas]

Distance that your bars are higher than your front axle.
Chainstay length.
Wheelbase (or reach), on a "normal" bike.

edit: based on OneSpeed's response, I might add BB drop as well, but all the bikes I'm interested in typically are not particularly low.

-F

 

[*OneSpeed*]

Chainstay length and BB drop are the two biggest variables based on what I've owned. Reach does not make it significantly harder or easier for me.

I have one 29er hardtail with "long" chainstays (440-445 for size XL) and the BB isn't super low, plus I over-forked it by 20mm. That thing snaps up in the air surprisingly quickly.

Alternately most of my other bikes are more modern geo, super short chainstays (415-427) and more BB drop.

I'm sure at the extreme ends of the spectrum handlebar height, wheelbase, and other things could impact ones ease of getting the front wheel up, for instance someone with a large riser bar that's well above the saddle.

 

[Jayem]

Chainstay length and how slack the STA is definitely. More slack STA, easier lever. Shorter chainstay, easier lever. Hardtail, less absorption to inputs and easier to pop up.

Of all of these, chainstay length makes the most difference to me though. I fell, luckily softly and onto grass, about a month ago popping a wheelie on my hardtail fat-bike running my wheel in the forward chainstay location. Previously I was practicing them on my GG megatrail, which I was having some good success wheeling on smooth ground, but the amount of effort it took to get the front end up was just crazy on that bike. On the hardtail fat bike, I freaking looped out so fast because I pulled up like I was still riding the other bike, despite having my finger on the brake.

But this is different IME than "pushing" the front end out over say a drop or g-out that you want to not dig the front end in/dead sailor/nose-drop. When going downhill at parks and there's an obstacle, it "seems" like I'm getting the front end up and off the trail when doing this, but it's not like pulling a wheelie, you don't have to go anywhere near as far. For this technique, I don't notice much difference between bikes and setups. Too large of a bike and too large of reach will probably make it harder, but this move is much more technique based IME, vs. a wheelie which varies considerably with the geometry of the bike and other setup stuff (like balancing on a fat-tire way easier than balancing on a skinny, etc.)

 

[Flyer]

BB Height and wheelbase/CS length. Higher BB bikes, the rest being similar, are very easy to manual. If the CS is shorter, it is even easier.

 

[AdamfromCanada]

On a related note, I sold my Banshee Phantom V3 because I hated the long CS. Stable bike, cornered very well, lots of things to like, but I found it harder to manual and bunny hop and less fun. If I was racing, I would buy a longer CS bike, but for fun riding, short, short, short for me.

 

[786737]

1-plyagra.

 

[rmac]

Lots of helpful comments above - thank you

.
Looking at my two bikes (love the Mojo3, struggle with the MT), the three big differences are the reach, ST angle and BB Drop.

 

[*OneSpeed*]

Lots of helpful comments above - thank you View attachment 1960174 .
Looking at my two bikes (love the Mojo3, struggle with the MT), the three big differences are the reach, ST angle and BB Drop.

Yeah, in your case the STA and Reach are the two biggest drivers. Those are significantly different.

One is no better than the other, (as far as getting the front wheel up), just requires slightly different technique IMO. I personally much prefer more modern/aggressive geometry.

 

[WHALENARD]

I'd agree on the lower/longer/slacker thing that reach/front center makes the biggest difference on front wheel lift. I basically had to completely retrain myself and learn new technique to wheelie drop or stay level in the air at low speeds. I also simply ride things out where before I might wheelie drop off of them. However that does a 180 at speed. It's much easier to launch off things and stay centered in the bike with the longer geo numbers.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk

 

[cookieMonster]

Generally speaking, long, low, slack modern geometry is harder to wheelie and manual. A LOT harder. Particularly the long/low part, not the slack head angle.

For me, it is mostly because of the longer reach. My Honzo ESD has short chainstays, thankfully, but when I adjusted them longer it became harder yet to pull into a wheelie. I set them back to the shortest setting and that’s where I’ll leave it.

So yeah, I think it’s mostly due to the much longer reach. It just takes a lot more effort to get the front wheel off the ground. Once I pull it off the ground though, it’s just as easy to keep it there.

I actually use manualing as a trail technique quite often— when traveling at high speed and going over a dip followed by a hump. Nosing into the hump can cause either an endo situation or best case scenario a jump where there isn’t necessarily a landing (I cringe at flat landings). Manualing over that stuff practically erases the feature and actually generates speed. I’ve had times with my ESD that I barely got the front tire over the hump, because it just takes so much more effort.

It’s almost comical when I’ve been riding the Honzo for several days in a row and then switch to my older enduro bike. I practically loop out on the enduro bike upon the first manual I do because it’s so much easier.

 

[Sanchofula]

You have a Megatrail and can’t lift the front end?

Why do you have two fs bikes with such huge differences in reach?

One of those bikes is too small or one of them is too big.

Still, even a DH bike can be manualled, so maybe spend some time working in technique on your driveway/street.

It’s not just about pulling on the bars … pedal stroke, weight back, bring the front end up and back, rebalance.

Build a manual machine 😊

Lots of helpful comments above - thank you View attachment 1960174 .
Looking at my two bikes (love the Mojo3, struggle with the MT), the three big differences are the reach, ST angle and BB Drop.

 

[r-rocket]

Suspension travel and tuning makes a big difference too. Long soft travel makes the front end feel more glued down.

Ride a Santa Cruz Blur 100mm/100mm set up firm for XC. Then ride a Blur TR (same frame with 115mm/120mm) with the suspension set up soft for trail.

One way to describe the difference would be "poppy" vs. "stable" using the same technique on both bikes. Another way to describe the difference, is that it takes a different technique with more weight transfer low and back, to do the same drop with the Blur TR vs. the regular Blur.

 

[J.B. Weld]

A powerful motor really helps.

 

[korbzy]

Wheelbase and length of arms/reach, you need to cantilever with your body. So the longer your wheelbase is the longer your arms/reach need to be.

The weight is above/ behind the back wheel, you're balancing with the front.

 

[angieri918]

Noticed that handlebar roll makes a pretty big difference as well. I had my bars rolled way too far forward for the longest time because that position just felt right on my hands. I’ve since rolled them back to where the sweep matches my HA rake. Just doing this has made it easier to pull up on to back wheel. Hope this helps

 

[Krapper2]

Center of Gravity. If the Center of Gravity is more towards the rear, it will be easier to lift the front end. Modern geo puts the COG more in the middle of the bike. This helps with front wheel traction when going down, and rear wheel traction when going up. Your short CS slack STA (and typically shorter wheelbase) puts you a** more over the rear axle on flat ground when compared to a modern geo bike.

All of this assumes a static position of the rider. You can move around the bike to change your COG. Maybe try sliding your butt back 1 CM prior to trying to wheelie. This has the same effect as shortening your CS length or slackening your STA, it also increases reach. So your arms may not be long enough to do this. If you need to you can "choke up" on the handle bar - meaning move your hands more towards the center. Doesn't have to be a lot, just more inward from the ends of the bars compared to your normal position. This will give your arms a bit more length so you can push back in the saddle more, but not so much you don't have your hand on the brakes.

 

[rmac]

Yeah, in your case the STA and Reach are the two biggest drivers. Those are significantly different.

One is no better than the other, (as far as getting the front wheel up), just requires slightly different technique IMO. I personally much prefer more modern/aggressive geometry.

I realized last night that the STA may not matter for what I mostly try to do on the trail in the context of front wheel lift because I am hardly on the seat at all for low speed drops and punching the bike up small ledges/rocks - I can think of punches where I am approaching them seated and stay seated through the initial weighting of the front of the bike but after that I am off the seat. I don't want to de-rail the thread into a technique thread (lots of videos on those) but I am thinking that STA might not be much of a factor here? Seated wheelies for sure but not something I am using much or working on right now.