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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First of all, the big qualifier here is that I am currently awaiting reconstructive surgery on my knee (snowboarding - did my ACL, MCL, miniscus (sp?)) so I have lots of time to think about me El Salt, Ventana in general, the EW laugh track, etc., that is, instead of being able to RIDE!!!!

SO here it is. The decals. Or should I say 'stickers'?

They s*cked on my mid-90's Marble Peak and, I am sorry to say, they still s*uck on my '04 El Salt. The one on the chainstay is really poorly placed and, butt ugly and, frankly a little crass. It began to wear out from my cleats rubbing against it immediately - like first ride. By the third ride I just peeled it off. And what's up with the URL on that one. Tacky! Anyone who is going to look up Ventana on the web after seeing one on the trail is certainly tech competent enough to use Google. Just "VENTANA" please, or better yet, nothing at all on the chain stay.

The top tube , down tube and head tube stickers - they're beautiful - but they're stickers! Come on Sherwood. How about at least a real decal, one that doesn't peel. As I look at my Salty now every one of the stickers has begun to peel where it has been nicked or scratched. IMHO - looks cheesy. Especially on a high $$$ frame like the big V.

Otherwise, I would sleep with this bike if my wife would let it in the bed. It's THAT good.

OK, I'm ready - flame suit on.

kev
 

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kev said:
First of all, the big qualifier here is that I am currently awaiting reconstructive surgery on my knee (snowboarding - did my ACL, MCL, miniscus (sp?)) so I have lots of time to think about me El Salt, Ventana in general, the EW laugh track, etc., that is, instead of being able to RIDE!!!!

SO here it is. The decals. Or should I say 'stickers'?

They s*cked on my mid-90's Marble Peak and, I am sorry to say, they still s*uck on my '04 El Salt. The one on the chainstay is really poorly placed and, butt ugly and, frankly a little crass. It began to wear out from my cleats rubbing against it immediately - like first ride. By the third ride I just peeled it off. And what's up with the URL on that one. Tacky! Anyone who is going to look up Ventana on the web after seeing one on the trail is certainly tech competent enough to use Google. Just "VENTANA" please, or better yet, nothing at all on the chain stay.

The top tube , down tube and head tube stickers - they're beautiful - but they're stickers! Come on Sherwood. How about at least a real decal, one that doesn't peel. As I look at my Salty now every one of the stickers has begun to peel where it has been nicked or scratched. IMHO - looks cheesy. Especially on a high $$$ frame like the big V.

Otherwise, I would sleep with this bike if my wife would let it in the bed. It's THAT good.

OK, I'm ready - flame suit on.

kev
That's funny :D

I like the stickers, although the ones running down the seatstays get covered up by the cables. I know they don't last as long as laquered decals, but they are dead easy to replace or remove if you want to go into stealth mode.
 

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Powered by ice cream.
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I'll have to agree. I "destickered" my Salty within 2 weeks of getting it. They just didn't look good over that gorgeous paint. No one can figure out what I'm riding when I'm on the trail...exactly how I like it.
 

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Ya know what looks worse than stickers?

...gouged, clearcoated logos on Downtubes that can't be fixed without a new paintjob -- that's what. Stickers offer protection and can be replaced EASILY. Yeah, my old 1995 MP stickers went to hell pretty quickly, but the newer ones have held up fine for me.

Now....a REAL headtube badge might be nice..

Feel the gin

kev said:
First of all, the big qualifier here is that I am currently awaiting reconstructive surgery on my knee (snowboarding - did my ACL, MCL, miniscus (sp?)) so I have lots of time to think about me El Salt, Ventana in general, the EW laugh track, etc., that is, instead of being able to RIDE!!!!

SO here it is. The decals. Or should I say 'stickers'?

They s*cked on my mid-90's Marble Peak and, I am sorry to say, they still s*uck on my '04 El Salt. The one on the chainstay is really poorly placed and, butt ugly and, frankly a little crass. It began to wear out from my cleats rubbing against it immediately - like first ride. By the third ride I just peeled it off. And what's up with the URL on that one. Tacky! Anyone who is going to look up Ventana on the web after seeing one on the trail is certainly tech competent enough to use Google. Just "VENTANA" please, or better yet, nothing at all on the chain stay.

The top tube , down tube and head tube stickers - they're beautiful - but they're stickers! Come on Sherwood. How about at least a real decal, one that doesn't peel. As I look at my Salty now every one of the stickers has begun to peel where it has been nicked or scratched. IMHO - looks cheesy. Especially on a high $$$ frame like the big V.

Otherwise, I would sleep with this bike if my wife would let it in the bed. It's THAT good.

OK, I'm ready - flame suit on.

kev
 

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ride, eat, live
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Stealth is the way to go

i basically agree, the chain and seatstay stickers were a bit much for me....so i wound up removing every single sticker on my X-5 and then painted the chain and seat stays black to match the front frame. it looks like a stealth fighter and barely anyone knows what it is. they assume i'm some schmuck (they may be right) with a no name bike. joke's on them.

cheap stickers or not, you couldn't ride something finer than a Ventana unless it has an Azz and T!ts
 

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They just got computers a few years back and the internet the year before last here in Wisconsin.

So the dotcom stickers are kinda hip to folks around here...makes me feel geeky.

I don't mind the stickers, I'd rather Sherwood spend time/money on good design and materials in lieu fancy decals. That's what I'm paying for.
 

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Shot Down in Flames...
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Couldn't have said it better myself

******* said:
...gouged, clearcoated logos on Downtubes that can't be fixed without a new paintjob -- that's what. Stickers offer protection and can be replaced EASILY. Yeah, my old 1995 MP stickers went to hell pretty quickly, but the newer ones have held up fine for me.

Now....a REAL headtube badge might be nice..

Feel the gin
The Ventana stickers/graphics/decals/yadda yadda, are a hell of a lot nicer than some I've seen. When you use a PC finish you are somewhat limited to what kind of graphics can be applied.

A metal headtube badge would be a very nice touch. Uhhhhhh, Hello Sherwood!!

I don't dig de-badged cars or bikes. Makes them look like generic brand cigarette packs.

JMHO,
D.
 

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quantity, not quality

Sticker quality (or lack thereof) doesn't bother me at all. What bothered me was the sticker quantity. Too [email protected] many of 'em! Makes a great looking bike look tacky, IMO.

De-stickered my Salty frame about 10 seconds after pulling it from the box. I left the down tube and head tube stickers, but all of the other ones had to go.

Agree with Shy - a real head badge would be nice.
 

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change is good
Switchblade with a 38, 29+ rigid WaltWorks
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it's like staring at cleavage

kev said:
First of all, the big qualifier here is that I am currently awaiting reconstructive surgery on my knee (snowboarding - did my ACL, MCL, miniscus (sp?)) so I have lots of time to think about me El Salt, Ventana in general, the EW laugh track, etc., that is, instead of being able to RIDE!!!!

SO here it is. The decals. Or should I say 'stickers'?

They s*cked on my mid-90's Marble Peak and, I am sorry to say, they still s*uck on my '04 El Salt. The one on the chainstay is really poorly placed and, butt ugly and, frankly a little crass. It began to wear out from my cleats rubbing against it immediately - like first ride. By the third ride I just peeled it off. And what's up with the URL on that one. Tacky! Anyone who is going to look up Ventana on the web after seeing one on the trail is certainly tech competent enough to use Google. Just "VENTANA" please, or better yet, nothing at all on the chain stay.

The top tube , down tube and head tube stickers - they're beautiful - but they're stickers! Come on Sherwood. How about at least a real decal, one that doesn't peel. As I look at my Salty now every one of the stickers has begun to peel where it has been nicked or scratched. IMHO - looks cheesy. Especially on a high $$$ frame like the big V.

Otherwise, I would sleep with this bike if my wife would let it in the bed. It's THAT good.

OK, I'm ready - flame suit on.

kev
Not only my eyes were drawn to the gorgeous paint, SEXY welds, and fantastic machine work, but others in the bike shop noticed the everything else but the stickers. It took about a week before it sunk in that I had .com stickers on the rear triangle. I've had it out only for about 10 or 15 rides and still no creaks unlike other previously owned bikes I could name. I can live with the stickers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
more stickies, post-it notes and decals...

I'm not really into stealth mode, so I still say that there's gotta be a better solution than the stickies. Although, long, long ago, in a galaxy far, far away I had a Wicked Fat Chance that lost it's decals through many years of abuse, and it was kinda cool to have the "Don't Tread On Me" decal at the base of the seat tube as the only identifier of an awesome piece of craftsmanship. How many of you "old timers" have any idea what I am talking about on the Fat? Come on, now. Go ahead and identify yourselves as the hopeless geezers that you are! ;)

As for decals under a clear coat, that's a stupid idea. I certainly wasn't suggesting THAT as a reasonable alternative.

And to those of you who made the "I'd rather see Sherwood invest in frames instead of decals" argument, let's not be silly here. Changing from one type of sticker to another type of decal has got to represent nearly zero additional dollars and effort.

As for solutions - I seem to remember a type of decal from my old Revell scale-model days that was printed on some sort of this plastic-like cellophane substance. Easy to put on and easy to replace. I thought that this was the way most frame decals were applied - that is, to continue the Star Wars metaphor, until I came in from the Dark Side and began riding Ventana. If I'm not mistaken, Santa Cruz uses some version of this type of decal and it is a very smooth look that seems to hold up well.

I am a huge fan of cool head badges, although this would represent additional $$ and effort for Sherwood to produce. I have an original (as opposed to recently re-released variety) VooDoo steel hardtail that has the coolest headbadge. I'll snap a digital pic and post it.

As for additional frame adornment - In this day and age of disc brakes it's too bad there isn't a way to incorporate something like the "hand job" rear cantilever brake cable guide like on the old Ibis hard tail frames. Any one remember those? Now THAT was an idea - a hand job with every frame... ;)

kev
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
more stickies, post-it notes and decals...

meant to reply here, speaking of technical expertise and computer literacy...doh!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not really into stealth mode, so I still say that there's gotta be a better solution than the stickies. Although, long, long ago, in a galaxy far, far away I had a Wicked Fat Chance that lost it's decals through many years of abuse, and it was kinda cool to have the "Don't Tread On Me" decal at the base of the seat tube as the only identifier of an awesome piece of craftsmanship. How many of you "old timers" have any idea what I am talking about on the Fat? Come on, now. Go ahead and identify yourselves as the hopeless geezers that you are!

As for decals under a clear coat, that's a stupid idea. I certainly wasn't suggesting THAT as a reasonable alternative.

And to those of you who made the "I'd rather see Sherwood invest in frames instead of decals" argument, let's not be silly here. Changing from one type of sticker to another type of decal has got to represent nearly zero additional dollars and effort.

As for solutions - I seem to remember a type of decal from my old Revell scale-model days that was printed on some sort of this plastic-like cellophane substance. Easy to put on and easy to replace. I thought that this was the way most frame decals were applied - that is, to continue the Star Wars metaphor, until I came in from the Dark Side and began riding Ventana. If I'm not mistaken, Santa Cruz uses some version of this type of decal and it is a very smooth look that seems to hold up well.

I am a huge fan of cool head badges, although this would represent additional $$ and effort for Sherwood to produce. I have an original (as opposed to recently re-released variety) VooDoo steel hardtail that has the coolest headbadge. I'll snap a digital pic and post it.

As for additional frame adornment - In this day and age of disc brakes it's too bad there isn't a way to incorporate something like the "hand job" rear cantilever brake cable guide like on the old Ibis hard tail frames. Any one remember those? Now THAT was an idea - a hand job with every frame...

kev
 

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Ventana Mountain Bikes
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Hey find out who makes the "cool" ones, let me know and I will check it out. What we have now is the best mix of clean look with ease of replacement. And our decals cost a fortune right now so something less expensive that would stick well, and not look like poop after a slide on a rock face would be awesome. Got any clues what that might be?

And since we do no marketing of our brand other that through word-of-mouth by you good folks, and our website, I felt that a dot com decal would suffice in at least letting interested ooglers know where to search when they are eyeballing your ride on the top of your car when you are inside getting your pre/post ride coffee fix. Sorry, my bad, take that one off if it offends you.

I have been entertaining the idea of a head badge for a long time. I agree it would be pretty cool, but I don't want to get some cheesy P.O.S. made in China or Taiwan. I would rather make it myself, or not at all. I just need to figure out how to do it in my nonexistant "spare time".
 

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OK, so I'm new to Ventanas

but I find it exceptionally cool that the designer himself is as open as Sherwood is. I don't particularly care for the .com sticker on the stays, but I don't mind enough to take 'em off in light of the advertising info above.

Sherwood, I take it the embossed gusset option like the Bruja is not feasible for the trail bikes?
 

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I think most here could agree that it's a testament to Ventana quality when the discussion of criticism revolves around stickers, decals and head badges.

Sherwood just mentioned head badges and my opinion is to just leave it alone, it's fine the way it is. Just one more thing to fall off the frame.

However, I think the stamped/embossed gusset is a reasonable idea - it has precedence on other parts of the frame (chainstay), is unique, and doesn't degrade with age.
 

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I think a CNCed aluminum headbadge would be very cool and very much in harmony with the Ventana vibe. A big burly "V".

My only other thought is that laser etched logos on ano bikes look really cool and are more durable than decals. Maybe there is some way to chemically etch a layer of the powercoat to create a logo? I have no idea.
 

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cRock said:
I think a CNCed aluminum headbadge would be very cool and very much in harmony with the Ventana vibe. A big burly "V".

My only other thought is that laser etched logos on ano bikes look really cool and are more durable than decals. Maybe there is some way to chemically etch a layer of the powercoat to create a logo? I have no idea.
The machined headbadge idea sounds good, but heavy. A few extra grams wouldn't bother me, but some people shave every last gram off their bikes.

I also prefer the idea of removable stickers so they can be replaced. I don't like the idea of permanent logos of any kind. They look worse when they get scratched. I'd rather remove or replace the stickers when they start looking a bit tatty. Actually, mine still look great after 6 months.
 

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My aluminum headtube badge...

is the blue ribbon off a PBR can, affixed w/ 3M adhesive. That may make Sherwood cringe (sorry!), but I like it. Maybe the solution is for Ventana to take submittals for the design of a metal badge, chose a winner by some means, and then commission Jen Green to make them in small lots, such that Ventana can offer them as an option on factory-ordered bikes. Just trying to think of a way for Sherwood to offer a product with a quality fitting to be fitted to a Ventana w/o it becoming a time-sink.
- Joe
 

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The great thing about sticker is that they come off easily. I removed 4 of the 6 "Ventana"'s right away. Leaving the downtube and head tube. (Just like I removed 4 or the 6 "Fox"'s from my fork, see the "viral" thread.) Far from stealth, but much cleaner in my opinion. I like the large downtube "Ventana" just the way it is.
 

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My idea for a headbadge

I humbly submit my idea for a headbadge! A thin ga Alum badge w/a big burly stylized Ventana "V" lasered or punched through it so that when applied to the headtube the frames color would be the color of the "V" I would make the badge color Pewter Ano! Sublime, yet stylie!
 
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