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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi Everyone, I have a 2019 Kona Hei Hei CR/DL and it seems to be slower than my trail bike (Specialized Stumpjumper) so I’ve been thinking of selling it. But how can it be slower than my trail bike on a climb? Is something setup wrong? Should I sell it and buy a Specialized Epic Full suspension, since I have a Specialized Epic hardtail and really like it?

Thanks for your opinions!
 

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BOOM goes the dynamite!
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"Seems" slower or did you actually time/test it multiple times under the same conditions (weather, rested, diet, etc)? I've often felt slow, only to come back and check Strava and end up getting a PR and vice versa (felt fast, actually going slow). Perceived effort can also be tricky, which is why many use heart rate monitors and power meters.

Could also be setup/tires/tire pressure/???
 

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When you say seems slower, is this just your subjective impression or have you timed yourself over the same route on the two bikes? I ask, because sometimes what seems slower may factually be faster. Also, under what circumstances are you making the comparison; climbing, descending, flat, smooth, rough, combination? What are the differences in setup between the bikes?

Although they're great trail bikes, Stumpjumpers are not known for be especially fast bikes on flats and climbs.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
When you say seems slower, is this just your subjective impression or have you timed yourself over the same route on the two bikes? I ask, because sometimes what seems slower may factually be faster. Also, under what circumstances are you making the comparison; climbing, descending, flat, smooth, rough, combination? What are the differences in setup between the bikes?

Although they're great trail bikes, Stumpjumpers are not known for be especially fast bikes on flats and climbs.
I used Strava to time a 1.5 mile technical climb, using the same power on both bikes I went approx 4 minutes faster on my StumpJumper. Granted this was different days, but every time I’ve tested it the Hei Hei is slower.
 

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since 4/10/2009
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I used Strava to time a 1.5 mile technical climb, using the same power on both bikes I went approx 4 minutes faster on my StumpJumper. Granted this was different days, but every time I’ve tested it the Hei Hei is slower.
Same power? Using power meters on both bikes? If you're not using power meters, then you're not measuring "power" and it's irrelevant.

4 minutes difference in 1.5mi? That's kinda huge. I have two bikes that are WAY more different than the two you're comparing and when I take each one out on a particular section of similar length, the time difference is seconds.

I think you're conflating some things and failing to consider others. Folks have already mentioned setup.

Also since you're talking about technical climbs, it begs for lots of details about the section of trail you're considering. What is "technical" in this discussion? It's going to matter.

The two bikes are very different beasts. The Kona is basically an xc bike, whereas the Stumpy is a more rowdy trail bike. The extra suspension of the Stumpy will let you plow through stuff without much finesse, but the shorter travel on the Kona requires quite a bit of finesse in technical trails. And by finesse, I'm specifically referring to rider input to maneuver the bike.

We have no idea about your riding skill, and even less idea about your riding style.

I can make a few guesses based on what's been said so far (and what hasn't) but generally speaking, I think the difference is the rider.
 

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That 2019 Kona Hei Hei CR/DL is a total dog.

What size is it and how much do you want for it?:D
 

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I owned a heihei 29 for a bit over a year. It's a fast bike, light and also descends well. I was not far off of my PRs on it from my xc hardtail. Something doesn't add up here.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
QUOTE=Harold;14165963]Same power? Using power meters on both bikes? If you're not using power meters, then you're not measuring "power" and it's irrelevant.

4 minutes difference in 1.5mi? That's kinda huge. I have two bikes that are WAY more different than the two you're comparing and when I take each one out on a particular section of similar length, the time difference is seconds.

I think you're conflating some things and failing to consider others. Folks have already mentioned setup.

Also since you're talking about technical climbs, it begs for lots of details about the section of trail you're considering. What is "technical" in this discussion? It's going to matter.

The two bikes are very different beasts. The Kona is basically an xc bike, whereas the Stumpy is a more rowdy trail bike. The extra suspension of the Stumpy will let you plow through stuff without much finesse, but the shorter travel on the Kona requires quite a bit of finesse in technical trails. And by finesse, I'm specifically referring to rider input to maneuver the bike.

We have no idea about your riding skill, and even less idea about your riding style.

I can make a few guesses based on what's been said so far (and what hasn't) but generally speaking, I think the difference is the rider.[/QUOTE]

I ride the same trail on my XC hardtail and that time blows away both the stumpjumper and Hei Hei, so I don’t think it’s the trail that’s making it slower.
 

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I ride the same trail on my XC hardtail and that time blows away both the stumpjumper and Hei Hei, so I don’t think it’s the trail that’s making it slower.
There are a lot of questions you still aren't answering. You need to answer them (and any other questions prompted by those responses) before anyone can even start guessing.

#1, answer all the questions that have been posed to you already, starting with post #2
#2, post the gps data
#3, what does the trail actually look like?
 

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4 minutes over 1.5 miles of technical climbing would suggest you stuff up majorly on some features. So perhaps the bike size doesn't suit you and you're struggling to clear some obstacles or the bottom bracket/pedals are too low and catching on things.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Okay. I am doing the comparison on a technical climb. The two bikes have different tires. The stumpjumper has Maxxis minions the Hei Hei Maxxis Aspen and Ikon (which should be faster IMO depending on conditions ofc) I haven’t used an exact power meter. Just Stravas estimated Watt usage.
 

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On my Hei Hei I found that running 30% sag in the shock pedals only ok. I went to 27% sag and crazy enough it made a pretty huge difference for some reason. How many volume spacers do you have on that fox? Does the bike feel boingy when pedaling under a lot of power?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
On my Hei Hei I found that running 30% sag in the shock pedals only ok. I went to 27% sag and crazy enough it made a pretty huge difference for some reason. How many volume spacers do you have on that fox? Does the bike feel boingy when pedaling under a lot of power?
I don’t know to be honest, I picked it up from the shop and haven’t done anything other than air pressure. Maybe that’s my problem? Wish fox had sag markings like RockShox :p
 

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I don’t know to be honest, I picked it up from the shop and haven’t done anything other than air pressure. Maybe that’s my problem? Wish fox had sag markings like RockShox :p
I'd say that's one potential problem.

Just use a ruler and do a little math.

Do you have any idea what your rebound setting is?

What about the fork settings? Tire pressures? There's probably more going on beyond these things, too, I'd bet.
 

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It's not the bike. It could be setup related but something is missing here. The Hei Hei has a very efficient pedaling platform.

I have a 2017 CR/DL in XL, same geometry. This is my endurance race bike but I've been spending a lot of time on it this year because everything else I own is broken. Been doing all XC races on it, every day trail riding, etc.

The bike is a rocket, it's ridiculously fast everywhere.

I'm surprised your faster on a longer travel bike with heavier tires, but we don't know much about the trail you're climbing. The tires on your Hei Hei are pretty fast tires, perhaps you need something with more grip? (not that that would account for a 4 minute difference, that's an eternity) Check out the Maxxis Forekaster for example.

Honestly not sure what would cause you to be slower on the Kona?
 

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Yep when putting down the power the hei hei is a rocket. Did the shop you buy it from do a proper shock and fork setup? There's way more to it than putting air in them.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Yep when putting down the power the hei hei is a rocket. Did the shop you buy it from do a proper shock and fork setup? There's way more to it than putting air in them.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
All I know is that they put air in the fork and shock. I ran the rebound they put on (didn’t really count how many clicks) maybe I should go to my LBS and have them set up the suspension the right way.
 
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