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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
can anybody confirm the advertised weight for the salsa semi of 505g. sounds too nice to be true.

also, would a wheelset with semis and aero-lite's on 240s make sense? the idea is too get a light race set that still gives a wide foodprint.
 

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canyonrat said:
This thread:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=421022

Lists the expected Semi rim weight at 575g per Salsa.
In that thread, Salsa says the Gordo is going to weigh 715g but it's been reported by several people that they weigh 680g. Yet, Salsa's website says the 29er Gordo is 625g. That just proves that neither the thread nor the website are correct for the Gordo. My guess is neither will be correct for the Semi as well. But no one seems to be able to confirm that, either.

Anybody work at a shop that has a Semi rim in stock that they can weigh for us?
 

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12snap said:
In that thread, Salsa says the Gordo is going to weigh 715g but it's been reported by several people that they weigh 680g. Yet, Salsa's website says the 29er Gordo is 625g. That just proves that neither the thread nor the website are correct for the Gordo. My guess is neither will be correct for the Semi as well. But no one seems to be able to confirm that, either.

Anybody work at a shop that has a Semi rim in stock that they can weigh for us?
Jason is accounting for tooling wear in his estimates, so early samples of Gordo may be the lightest, which might explain the variance in his expectation setting vs. specific samples:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=4875159&page=2&highlight=gordo+tooling

Regarding the Salsa website, it still lists Semi availability as "SPRING 2009" so I was not really counting that as an accurate data point to consider. ;)

There will always be some variance in samples so even someone weighing one in a shop today is not a guarantee. The best wheelbuilder I have dealt with actually weighed the exact rim he was going to use in my build and quoted me the gram weight over the phone before I ordered.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
canyonrat said:
Jason is accounting for tooling wear in his estimates, so early samples of Gordo may be the lightest, which might explain the variance in his expectation setting vs. specific samples:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=4875159&page=2&highlight=gordo+tooling

Regarding the Salsa website, it still lists Semi availability as "SPRING 2009" so I was not really counting that as an accurate data point to consider. ;)

There will always be some variance in samples so even someone weighing one in a shop today is not a guarantee. The best wheelbuilder I have dealt with actually weighed the exact rim he was going to use in my build and quoted me the gram weight over the phone before I ordered.
if tooling wear causes close to 15% weight variations (505g vs. 575g for the Semi), salsa should quickly re-consider their manufacturing process and/or supplier. and if jason believes it (i understand that he is from salsa), than i am very sorry - than salsa urgently needs some more expertise in-house and reduce the off-take part of their business or they will quickly end up without any core competence.

when working with aluminum there is no way to have more than 1% due to tooling wear, as long as we are talking about a stable manufacturing process. look at thomson or chris king where you will hardly find 0,5% weight variances for their products - they know what they are doing and as a consequence their products are great!

Things are very different when talking about some other products like for example tires where you are "baking" in a chemical process products partly made out of natural ingredients - every rubber tree is different. There you can quickly get 5-10% of weight variances.
 

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hellocook said:
if tooling wear causes close to 15% weight variations (505g vs. 575g for the Semi), salsa should quickly re-consider their manufacturing process and/or supplier. and if jason believes it (i understand that he is from salsa), than i am very sorry - than salsa urgently needs some more expertise in-house and reduce the off-take part of their business or they will quickly end up without any core competence.

when working with aluminum there is no way to have more than 1% due to tooling wear, as long as we are talking about a stable manufacturing process. look at thomson or chris king where you will hardly find 0,5% weight variances for their products - they know what they are doing and as a consequence their products are great!

Things are very different when talking about some other products like for example tires where you are "baking" in a chemical process products partly made out of natural ingredients - every rubber tree is different. There you can quickly get 5-10% of weight variances.
Rim extrusions are a LOT different than CNC operations such as King headsets. Nobody hits 1% differences in rims. With a CNC operation, you just machine until you hit the target. Extrusions however, require you to replace the expensive die as it wears. I'm not sure 15% variance in rims is normal, but I'm pretty sure 5% is common.

Some links:

http://www.neuvationcycling.com/wordpress/?p=15

http://www.bikepro.com/products/rims/rimover.shtml
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
John_Biker said:
Rim extrusions are a LOT different than CNC operations such as King headsets. Nobody hits 1% differences in rims. With a CNC operation, you just machine until you hit the target. Extrusions however, require you to replace the expensive die as it wears. I'm not sure 15% variance in rims is normal, but I'm pretty sure 5% is common.

Some links:

http://www.neuvationcycling.com/wordpress/?p=15

http://www.bikepro.com/products/rims/rimover.shtml
i agree that rim extrusion has higher variations than large scale cnc parts. For smaller complex cnc parts like a stem or headsets vs. extrusion of rims of the same base material the weight variations shouldn't be 30 times larger.

anyhow, what i refered to is (and what jason stated) are VARIATIONS DUE TO TOOLING WEAR.

5% variations maybe common for rim weights, but surely is far away of a quality manufacturing process. Either the old and crappy maintained machinery is out of spec, the operator does not know what he is doing or the tooling technician does not know what he is doing. Or the first tooling has been bad, it takes some months to get new tooling but the manufacturer keeps producing with the old tooling and selling the first batch of lower quality rims.

Tough to find an explaination why salsa comes up with such different weights that does not make salsa look pretty bad.
 

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Sorry the confusion and the conflicting information. Updates coming soon to the Salsa site.

Weights should be as follows:

575g for Semi 29er
700 for Gordo 29er

Initial rims will likely be just tad lighter than this due to new tooling. I think this is evident and consistent with what weights that have been documented here on mtbr. As tooling wears, the weight will be closer to the shown weights above.

Again, sorry for the troubles.

Jason
Salsa Crew
 

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Wel....Actually

hellocook said:
thanks for jumping in Jason.

But wht is a tad lighter. are the first ones 505g as stated on your Web page?
I just weighed a production rim that will be going on my personal bike shortly, and it weighed 584g. This is in line with variances in manufacturing and our targeted weight.

Historically, we've seen anywhere from zero up to 25 grams lighter on first production.

I know that's probably not what you were hoping for, but it is accurate and it is the truth.

Thanks.

Jason
Salsa Crew
 
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