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650b is taking over the market in new sales of bikes, but is there a 650b out there that is a better performer than the Chili? And on that note, will be Warden out perform the Chili?
 

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I think it depends on how you define 'out perform'. There are likely many 650b bikes (including the Warden) that will climb better than the Chilli. I doubt there are many that could keep up with on steep/burly descents. I have a Chilli and a 650b Range and the Range feels more efficient for tech climbing and is a more 'poppy' than the Chilli. No comparison once the trail points downhill though.
 

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Will the new 27.5 Nomad be part of the mix?
Sorry to make this thread more complicated ;-)
 

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Just rode the Warden the last two days, I own a Chilcotin. The Warden had the Pike and CC Shock, the Chilcotin has fox suspension.

The Warden was hands down a better climber. Was it the shock? Wheel size? Geo? package?

Pointing down it rode like a knolly. The Pike is a great fork.

I've never felt wanting more descending the Chilcotin, I don't think I'd be wanted more with the Warden either.

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I was switching back and forth between my Chili and a Warden on Gooseberry Mesa this past weekend and there were a few areas where the Warden out did my Chili. One was on steppy or rooty climbs with odd gaps. The bigger wheels definitely filled in the gaps better and climbed up and over this kind of stuff with less body English and effort. In more open rolling areas (far and few between on Goose) I liked how the Warden seemed to flow and was easier to keep it moving forward at a brisk pace.

But for most of the tighter, steeper, techy stuff (not to mention drops and steep rollers) I think the Chilcotin was better.

How do you think the Warden handled the tighter techy stuff in North Van Sharon? Compared to the Chili?

Maybe pfarrell will chime in. He was the one I was switching back and forth with.
 

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Just rode the Warden the last two days, I own a Chilcotin. The Warden had the Pike and CC Shock, the Chilcotin has fox suspension.

The Warden was hands down a better climber. Was it the shock? Wheel size? Geo? package?

Pointing down it rode like a knolly. The Pike is a great fork.

I've never felt wanting more descending the Chilcotin, I don't think I'd be wanted more with the Warden either.
Sounds like you like the Warden Sharon. How does it compare size-wise to your Medium Chilcotin? Does the Warden climb as well as your Firebird?
 

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How do you think the Warden handled the tighter techy stuff in North Van Sharon? Compared to the Chili?
The Chilcotin is definitely a quicker handling bike, but I don't think you'd lose much with the Warden for what you gain in climbing ability and more comfort being aggressive on the descent.

I found I could be more forward, or less back if you prefer that description, on the descents and going into corners. I also felt the bike was more stable when I edged it more.

Its kinda like a 110 underfoot ski vs a <100 underfoot ski. You can go faster, more confidently, but if you want it to be quick you have to work harder.
 

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What size is the Warden you are trying, Sharon? Both Warden's I've demoed have been larges and while the one I rode on Gooseberry felt better set up for my size than the stretched out cockpit Large that I rode at Aliso Woods, I still couldn't help but feel that the medium would've felt more snappy and easier to corner.

I did ride a medium around the park down near the demo area and it felt pretty good/not scrunched plus it felt a bit more 26er-like in tossing it back and forth and manualling etc FWIW. Hard to tell much on a quick spin on the pavement but it's better than nothing.
 

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I still couldn't help but feel that the medium would've felt more snappy and easier to corner.
KRob, what size Chilli do you ride? I am 5'7 with short legs on a medium and I find it just small enough for me. If the Warden fits larger then I think I would want a small.
 

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The Chilcotin is definitely a quicker handling bike, but I don't think you'd lose much with the Warden for what you gain in climbing ability and more comfort being aggressive on the descent.

I found I could be more forward, or less back if you prefer that description, on the descents and going into corners. I also felt the bike was more stable when I edged it more.

Its kinda like a 110 underfoot ski vs a <100 underfoot ski. You can go faster, more confidently, but if you want it to be quick you have to work harder.
Sharon, do you have much time on the new endorphin? I'm liking what you're saying about the warden climbing vs the chili. That was my main gripe with it. I love the quickness of the endo over all, but could appreciate something a bit more bomber when...errr...bombing.
 

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Sharon, do you have much time on the new endorphin? I'm liking what you're saying about the warden climbing vs the chili. That was my main gripe with it. I love the quickness of the endo over all, but could appreciate something a bit more bomber when...errr...bombing.
I haven't tried the new endorphin, my impression would be its more xc, and a better climber. The Chilcotin replaced the old (and my) endorphin which I didn't think was very xc.
 

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I haven't tried the new endorphin, my impression would be its more xc, and a better climber. The Chilcotin replaced the old (and my) endorphin which I didn't think was very xc.
On the climbing aspect of the Warden, is it a weight thing, design, or the suspension components? Or a combo?

Your description sounds like the Warden is like the new endorphin (climbing) and the old dt (handling) in the same package.

tw
 

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On the climbing aspect of the Warden, is it a weight thing, design, or the suspension components? Or a combo?

Your description sounds like the Warden is like the new endorphin (climbing) and the old dt (handling) in the same package.

tw
This bike weighed the same as my chilcotin, 31lbs, had the maxxis minion tires front and rear, pumped up to hard enough. My Chilcotin has a minion front/ardent rear - so should climb faster before the ardent loses traction.

I did feel more upright in the saddle, maybe the steeper seat tube is good? I really think the CC shock makes a difference. Just kept the suspension more stable.
 

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KRob, what size Chilli do you ride? I am 5'7 with short legs on a medium and I find it just small enough for me. If the Warden fits larger then I think I would want a small.
If possible, try the Warden at a shop that will let you change out stems and let you spend a some time pedaling it around (even a parking lot). You should be able to tell fairly quickly if you want a small or medium (especially if you can ride them back to back). If not, and you're a tweener and like to size up then I would do the same on the Warden.

I'm between a Med and Lrg Chili, so I bought medium Chili. In St. George, for about an hour this weekend I rode a large Warden a buddy was demoing on Zen Trail. I liked the bike and the feel of the large. Riding the large Warden made me want to demo a large Chili and feel the difference between the two.

Note: I only spent enough time on the Warden to make me want more so I couldn't really give you a good comparison of it versus another bike. I do know that it climbs well. I found loose, red dirt hill and kept pedaling up it at steeper angles. The bike stuck to it much better than I expected.
 

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This bike weighed the same as my chilcotin, 31lbs, had the maxxis minion tires front and rear, pumped up to hard enough. My Chilcotin has a minion front/ardent rear - so should climb faster before the ardent loses traction.

I did feel more upright in the saddle, maybe the steeper seat tube is good? I really think the CC shock makes a difference. Just kept the suspension more stable.
Thanks Sharon.

I just added that shock to my bike for that reason. I use dhf st front and 60a back both exos. It climbs well, but always looking for an(other) advantage as I get older....
 

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KRob, what size Chilli do you ride? I am 5'7 with short legs on a medium and I find it just small enough for me. If the Warden fits larger then I think I would want a small.
I ride a large Chilcotin and would consider going to medium Warden just for the shorter wheelbase if nothing else. However, I will say I have yet to ride a large with a truly short stem. I think one had a 70 or 80 mm stem and the other had a 60mm.
 

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I ride a large Chilcotin and would consider going to medium Warden just for the shorter wheelbase if nothing else.
More to the point: if you rode a medium Chilcotin would you go to a small Warden?

And for my curiosity, when does a wheel base become too small?

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Hey Everyone:

I want to help get some accurate information out regarding the Endorphin, Warden and Chilcotin.

Firstly, we strive to make our sizing consistent between all of our frame models. If you ride a medium Chilcotin, you will almost certainly fit a medium Warden and a medium Endorphin. If you are a tweener you might want to arrange a test ride if possible (I know - not always easy, but we are continually working on increasing exposure to our frames) but in most cases fit will be consistent across all models. Just as an aside, the Warden pre-production frames had sizing that has since been tweaked for production (i.e. to ensure the frames fit in line with our other bikes as discussed above). If you have ridden one of these pre-production Warden frames (without front triangle bolt on cable guides) and have questions on sizing, please contact us at Knolly. Essentially the production frames are a bit longer (0.2") than the pre-production frames in top tube length: otherwise, the geometry is the same.

Secondly, in terms of suspension and pedalling performance we strive to ensure continuity and consistency of design goals between all models. This means that the Endorphin @ 140mm of travel will have the snappiest pedalling dynamics, followed by the Warden @ 150mm and then the Chilcotin @ 160mm. Conversely, the Chilcotin will have overall the best DH performance, then the Warden and then the Endorphin due to amount of travel, geometry, appropriate fork selection and tweaking of shock progression. This applies to frame weight as well, with the Endorphin being ~6.5 lbs, the Warden ~7.0 lbs and the Chilcotin 7.5 lbs (with a Fox CTD Shock): weight is also indicative of frame strength. Of course, being Knolly products, they all have excellent technical performance :)

Regarding 27.5 vs 26": this is a physics question and the slightly larger wheels will roll over obstacles and maintain momentum a bit better than 26" wheels. Conversely, the 26" wheels will accelerate a bit quicker and be slightly more maneuverable than the 27.5" wheels. The difference in characteristics between the two sizes is approx 4.5%.

Hopefully this helps all of you understand how we design our products and can allow you to make the appropriate choice when deciding upon your next Knolly frame! Please don't hesitate to contact us by e-mail (available on our website) if you have any specific questions regarding fit, application and performance characteristics.

Cheers (and thank you all for your interest in our products)!
 
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