[svinyard]

Colin over at the BikeDads (cool dudes) sent me this yesterday when I pinged him about bikes. Man, what a SWEET build for 2k$-ish. Apparently they ship to the US as well. 22lbs is seriously impressive.

-Fox DPS Shock 120mm (I like the extra travel)

-Magura MT4 brakes (these levers are awesome looking for kids)

-Snyper 120mm fork (wish it was the Manitou)

-SRAM GX Drive train with 10-42...this should be standard on these highend FS kids bikes. Getting stuck with old Shimano hub sucks.

-140mm cranks, very nice looking.

-Nice kids cockpit stuff

Not sure what the geo numbers are. The backend looks oddly really long.

http://instagr.am/p/Bvi87HsFgcN/

 

[thesmokingman]

Eeew, that's a classic single pivot.

 

[svinyard]

Eeew, that's a classic single pivot.

Lol. Is that a bad thing for kids (honest question) ? I don't think this is our next bike but I do like the out of the box weight and spec for the money. It's about 1000$ cheaper than Trailcraft but 2 to 3lbs lighter. Something about it looks weird tho. Maybe it's the Pivot style downtube belly?

 

[thesmokingman]

Lol. Is that a bad thing for kids (honest question) ? I don't think this is our next bike but I do like the out of the box weight and spec for the money. It's about 1000$ cheaper than Trailcraft but 2 to 3lbs lighter. Something about it looks weird tho. Maybe it's the Pivot style downtube belly?

Single pivot designs can be made to perform well but that usually entails adding a link to control movement of the shock. That Vpace is not using any tricks, its just a basic as can be single pitvot like a walmart bike.

 

[Tjaard]

Here is an article describing the 26" bike:
https://www.mtb-news.de/news/2018/07/19/bike-der-woche-vpace-moritz26-ibc-user-locketirol/
Mentions 75 degree seat angle and 66 degree headangle. Also mention the high leverage ratio to make sure lightweight kids get proper suspension action.

Here is more info:
Moritz - das Kinder-Fully Trailbike - VPACE Bikes
Reach: 387 mm, toptube horiz.: 531 mm, seattube: 350 mm @ 75°, head Tube angle 66°, Stack: 541,4 mm, chainstay: 425 mm

 

[POAH]

thats a heck of an ugly bike. cheapest way to make a bike is that basic single pivot.

 

[thesmokingman]

It's about 1000$ cheaper than Trailcraft but 2 to 3lbs lighter.

$2K-ish is a helluvalot of cash to sort go crazy. Here's what my kid rode from around 11-13yrs old. It was roughly 2K give or take, fitted with 35mm ID wheels, 2.6mm wide tires, dropper post, 11-50 drivetrain... And the big part is that it weighed 25lbs training trim. The race day wheels drop a 1lb off the bike...

https://forums.mtbr.com/families-ri...r-carbon-ht-build-1028372-2.html#post13219875

 

[Tjaard]

thats a heck of an ugly bike. cheapest way to make a bike is that basic single pivot.

I think it's a smart choice:

• Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
• It probably is the cheapest way. Considering price is a huge deal for most kids bikes, choosing a cheap design makes a lot of sense
• It si also one of the lightest designs, especially on a tiny frame, pivots and bearings add o lot of weight(relatively speaking)
• It's a low maintainance design thats cheap/easy to keep running for a long time. Considering that high end kids bikes are likely to be handed down, that's quite useful

 

[Tjaard]

$2K-ish is a helluvalot of cash to sort go crazy. Here's what my kid rode from around 11-13yrs old. It was roughly 2K give or take, fitted with 35mm ID wheels, 2.6mm wide tires, dropper post, 11-50 drivetrain... And the big part is that it weighed 25lbs training trim. The race day wheels drop a 1lb off the bike...

View attachment 1247548

https://forums.mtbr.com/families-ri...r-carbon-ht-build-1028372-2.html#post13219875

That's interesting. I was about to get the Vpace Moritz 26 for my 8 year old, as it seems the best balance of:

• Standover (tried every XS adult bike I could think of, specifically the XS Juliana Furtado in shop and it's just too tall, she is on the toptube)
• Weight
• Price
• Geometry: 66 HA, steep seat tube, just right chainstays, perfect reach for her

But your build is competitive in price and weight, and if I could reuse parts, that would get it even cheaper.

A quick search on Aliexpress doesn't show much price difference though. I see a bare frame for $700, vs the Vpace Moritz frame and shock for ~$1000, assuming a Fox shock is more than $300 that puts any price difference to rest. Of course the Chinese carbon frame is 200-300g lighter.
and of course, with the Vpace, you have the option of a complete bike, with kids sized parts spec.

Can you tell me the fork and rear-suspension travel you have on there?
Is there any room at full compression to the seat tube, in order to run offset bushings?

Did you say your son was 4'8" when he got on it? My daughter is 4'5".
Could you measure the standover, ideally in 2 places: below the tip of the saddle and in the middle of the top-tube?

Thanks!

 

[thesmokingman]

That's interesting. I was about to get the Vpace Moritz 26 for my 8 year old, as it seems the best balance of:

• Standover (tried every XS adult bike I could think of, specifically the XS Juliana Furtado in shop and it's just too tall, she is on the toptube)
• Weight
• Price
• Geometry: 66 HA, steep seat tube, just right chainstays, perfect reach for her

But your build is competitive in price and weight, and if I could reuse parts, that would get it even cheaper.

A quick search on Aliexpress doesn't show much price difference though. I see a bare frame for $700, vs the Vpace Moritz frame and shock for ~$1000, assuming a Fox shock is more than $300 that puts any price difference to rest. Of course the Chinese carbon frame is 200-300g lighter.
and of course, with the Vpace, you have the option of a complete bike, with kids sized parts spec.

Hmm, cannot find the original Tideace thread with all our different builds...

Can you tell me the fork and rear-suspension travel you have on there?
Is there any room at full compression to the seat tube, in order to run offset bushings?

Did you say your son was 4'8" when he got on it? My daughter is 4'5".
Could you measure the standover, ideally in 2 places: below the tip of the saddle and in the middle of the top-tube?

Thanks!

I'll check the standover later today when I get home. The bike since being retired went to my daughter who doesn't ride much so its running the race wheels with similar drivetrain. The suspension is um... what's ugh the Monarch XX rear and SID WC front, 100mm F/R. Back then the 26er WC forks were being closed out and I scored on the SID WC for 300 bucks.

Hmm, having a hard time finding the original Tideace thread. I listed out my build in that thread as did others.

 

[Tjaard]

Thanks!

My daughter is 4’5”, and could really use a more aggressive bike for more control on the rougher trails. (riding a modded Riprock 24” with -2 angle adjust headset).
Unfortunately, she is just a bit on the short side for standover with the women’s XS bikes that I tried, both 27.5 hardtails and full suspension.
The only XS full suspension bike was the Juliana Furtado. Since she was right on top of the toptube, I would need to lower it a lot. The other bikes our store has that I looked at specs (Stumpy and Fuel EX) are even taller in standover.
even when we tried some 13” womens hardtails they were kind of too tall, and most of them don’t have good aggressive geo with a slack head angle.
The only one that was good was some crappy cheap semi-mtb hard tail from Trek that had a nice curved toptube.

 

[svinyard]

Thanks!

My daughter is 4'5", and could really use a more aggressive bike for more control on the rougher trails. (riding a modded Riprock 24" with -2 angle adjust headset).
Unfortunately, she is just a bit on the short side for standover with the women's XS bikes that I tried, both 27.5 hardtails and full suspension.
The only XS full suspension bike was the Juliana Furtado. Since she was right on top of the toptube, I would need to lower it a lot. The other bikes our store has that I looked at specs (Stumpy and Fuel EX) are even taller in standover.
even when we tried some 13" womens hardtails they were kind of too tall, and most of them don't have good aggressive geo with a slack head angle.
The only one that was good was some crappy cheap semi-mtb hard tail from Trek that had a nice curved toptube.

What about building out that Chinese carbon frame with 24" wheels? Might be interesting might make a little more sense to drop that cash on long term. Could be a fun project. When picking the suspension, I'd find something cheap enough where you could afford to get it tuned appropriately for the kid or get the Manitou McLeod with its kid specific tune.

 

[GSJ1973]

Here is an article describing the 26" bike:
https://www.mtb-news.de/news/2018/07/19/bike-der-woche-vpace-moritz26-ibc-user-locketirol/
Mentions 75 degree seat angle and 66 degree headangle. Also mention the high leverage ratio to make sure lightweight kids get proper suspension action.

Here is more info:
Moritz - das Kinder-Fully Trailbike - VPACE Bikes
Reach: 387 mm, toptube horiz.: 531 mm, seattube: 350 mm @ 75°, head Tube angle 66°, Stack: 541,4 mm, chainstay: 425 mm

Not a fan of the single pivot design (think back to my 1999 Santa Cruz Superlight), but that is an impressive weight. Lack of suspension parts and bearings probably helps.

It's a really long bike with 425mm chainstays. I wonder if it is designed to take 24 and 26"? Most seem to be going the other direction.

 

[thesmokingman]

Thanks!

My daughter is 4'5", and could really use a more aggressive bike for more control on the rougher trails. (riding a modded Riprock 24" with -2 angle adjust headset).
Unfortunately, she is just a bit on the short side for standover with the women's XS bikes that I tried, both 27.5 hardtails and full suspension.
The only XS full suspension bike was the Juliana Furtado. Since she was right on top of the toptube, I would need to lower it a lot. The other bikes our store has that I looked at specs (Stumpy and Fuel EX) are even taller in standover.
even when we tried some 13" womens hardtails they were kind of too tall, and most of them don't have good aggressive geo with a slack head angle.
The only one that was good was some crappy cheap semi-mtb hard tail from Trek that had a nice curved toptube.

Here you go.

 

[Suns_PSD]

The bike posted looks nice to me but I can't speak to the rear suspension design but have heard that old single pivot suspension designs were just terrible soul sucking devices.
I considered very hard building my kid a WW 24" HT starting with an Alibaba CF frame but in the end i'm glad I didn't for 3 reasons.
1) when she is crashing she throws her bike down in to our endless rocks and jumps off rarely hitting the ground herself. She has already scratched her Ripcord frame as a result of this. I'd be concerned about a CF frame holding up.
2) was recently ripped off on Alibaba and they provide no buyer protection at all. Will not be ordering anything that I can buy from ebay instead, nor will I ever order anything costing more than $30 or so from Alibaba.
3) resale. Pretty sure my depreciation will be less on the used Ripcord I have, which weighs 22.1# smartly modified.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[thesmokingman]

The bike posted looks nice to me but I can't speak to the rear suspension design but have heard that old single pivot suspension designs were just terrible soul sucking devices.
I considered very hard building my kid a WW 24" HT starting with an Alibaba CF frame but in the end i'm glad I didn't for 3 reasons.
1) when she is crashing she throws her bike down in to our endless rocks and jumps off rarely hitting the ground herself. She has already scratched her Ripcord frame as a result of this. I'd be concerned about a CF frame holding up.
2) was recently ripped off on Alibaba and they provide no buyer protection at all. Will not be ordering anything that I can buy from ebay instead, nor will I ever order anything costing more than $30 or so from Alibaba.
3) resale. Pretty sure my depreciation will be less on the used Ripcord I have, which weighs 22.1# smartly modified.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

The bike I posted has been crashed more times than I can recall. His first race out, on the warm up he crashed into a tree and broke the handlebar, smh. He ended up riding on our spare. That first season of NICA, oh man the crashes. Everyone in their first year crashes, a lot. The whole frame is covered in 3M, so the carbon is rather unscathed surprisingly.

Also, regarding alibabba did you file with your credit card? I assume it happened a while ago? I've had chinese deals go bad too and have had no problem getting my funds back after filing a dispute. Citi even told me to not bother return shipping.

That said, the 24er size to me was the shortest lived bike size. Monetarily it hurt the most. My kid probably could have ridden longer on 24er (10-11yr), but socially it was awkward for him being the only kid on 24er on the middle school team when everyone is on 26er or bigger, usually bigger. 29er is very popular in xc racing even for shorties. I guess it was time for me to upgrade and pass my old frame down lol. It worked out though. I got a smoking deal on a 26lb Lapierre am827.

He's 5'4 now and I fear it won't be long before he's too big for the Fuji.

 

[SactoGeoff]

You guys crack me up! "Single pivot ewww!" The VPace is awesome! It's low slung so the rider sits "in" the bike and not "on" the bike. Also the VPace design allows for a kid who would be riding a 20" to move up to a 24" and a kid who would otherwise ride a 24" to be riding a 26" They are all about going fast across the ground. Kids XC racing is their jam. A Trailcraft is downright burly compared to a VPace. I'm certain the VPace does a very good job at what it's designed to do. And it's ergonomically correct, very light and a reasonable value. In comparison to the Chinese build above, which requires a great deal of effort and frankly, some risk (to anyone without extensive knowledge) to build up. Not to mention the TIME involved in sorting the build. I'd go VPace all day long.

 

[BikePilot1]

I rode/raced single pivot bikes for a couple decades. They aren't bad at all. I do prefer my current VPP-ish Intense, but a single pivot is totally rideable and can be a ton of fun. It's hard to get them to be both plush and efficient, but it's easy to get them to ride reasonably well and be really poppy and fun, they just tend not to be as plush. As with everything the execution matters a lot. Ideally the pivot point should be pretty high and as far forward as possible from my experience. My old Pro Flex Animal had the pivot mounted on the downtube, about even with the top of the chainring. It pedals really well and is super poppy and playful with 4" of travel (that was a ton in the mid 1990s when the thing was made).

 

[svinyard]

The bike I posted has been crashed more times than I can recall. His first race out, on the warm up he crashed into a tree and broke the handlebar, smh. He ended up riding on our spare. That first season of NICA, oh man the crashes. Everyone in their first year crashes, a lot. The whole frame is covered in 3M, so the carbon is rather unscathed surprisingly.

Also, regarding alibabba did you file with your credit card? I assume it happened a while ago? I've had chinese deals go bad too and have had no problem getting my funds back after filing a dispute. Citi even told me to not bother return shipping.

That said, the 24er size to me was the shortest lived bike size. Monetarily it hurt the most. My kid probably could have ridden longer on 24er (10-11yr), but socially it was awkward for him being the only kid on 24er on the middle school team when everyone is on 26er or bigger, usually bigger. 29er is very popular in xc racing even for shorties. I guess it was time for me to upgrade and pass my old frame down lol. It worked out though. I got a smoking deal on a 26lb Lapierre am827.

He's 5'4 now and I fear it won't be long before he's too big for the Fuji.
View attachment 1248752

Do you recall the size of the kid when he got on the 24" and got off it? I'm concerned about burning some cash too...tho thankfully I have a second boy.

 

[jochribs]

Smokin, that Fuji looks surprisingly steep, even for my standards!