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Beer drinking biker!
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone know of any videos (youtube, vimeo, etc.) that can be easily posted on facebook, etc to encourage riders to not ride the muddy trails? Just saying it over and over is repetitive and I would think a good short video would be a good way to go. Wanted to see if anyone knew of one. I've looked a little bit with no such luck.
 

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Terrain Sculptor
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4,692 Posts
I did a little looking around too and didn't have any luck. The problem is that riding in mud looks like, and is, a lot of fun. All the video I found (mostly on Pinkbike) would likely encourage people to ride in the mud. Maybe if you showed the video and then said, "Look, people on Pinkbike think it's a good idea so it can't be right)

I wasn't able to find any video of people sweating in the hot sun trying to repair deep ruts after the trail had dried out into a concrete-like surface.
 

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Pedaler of dirt
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903 Posts
Riding in the mud IS fun and I can't see and have never seen a problem with it.

All I hear is a bunch of jessies *****in' about having to negotiate a trail that isn't as smooth as the road they just left. It's off road cycling for a reason.
 

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Terrain Sculptor
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marzjennings said:
Riding in the mud IS fun and I can't see and have never seen a problem with it.

All I hear is a bunch of jessies *****in' about having to negotiate a trail that isn't as smooth as the road they just left. It's off road cycling for a reason.
The issue has been argued to death. There are times when it's OK and times when it isn't. You are pretty lucky to ride in an area where other users of the trail don't complain about the damage done to the trails by bikers riding wet trails and then the land manager shuts down mountain bike access because of it.

Do you dirt jump? Or ride pump tracks? Or freeride ride trails with carefully constructed berms, jumps, gaps and tabletops? Do you ride in public bike parks where the trails are maintained by volunteers? Or in public parks on multi-use trails that someone may be trying to push a stroller? Or on wheelchair accessible trails? All of these are situations where riding in the mud is a bad idea.

I build trails specifically designed for mud riding. I build other trails designed for other purposes that shouldn't be ridden while wet.
 

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Pedaler of dirt
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903 Posts
Trail Ninja said:
The issue has been argued to death. There are times when it's OK and times when it isn't. You are pretty lucky to ride in an area where other users of the trail don't complain about the damage done to the trails by bikers riding wet trails and then the land manager shuts down mountain bike access because of it.

Do you dirt jump? Or ride pump tracks? Or freeride ride trails with carefully constructed berms, jumps, gaps and tabletops? Do you ride in public bike parks where the trails are maintained by volunteers? Or in public parks on multi-use trails that someone may be trying to push a stroller? Or on wheelchair accessible trails? All of these are situations where riding in the mud is a bad idea.

I build trails specifically designed for mud riding. I build other trails designed for other purposes that shouldn't be ridden while wet.
No it hasn't been argued to death, the dictated position from IMBA and others is that riding muddy trails is bad for no other good reason that folks like their offroad trails to be smooth. And after 25 years of riding off road I've come to the staggering conclusion all we're arguing about is dirt. Just dirt and how some folks don't like to get their boots or tyres dirty and therefore everyone else should follow likewise.
 

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trail rat
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Riding certain trails in the mud cuts through the drain dips that are designed to take water off the trails and prevent erosion. Then a series are cut, the cascade effect takes over and they fail one after another. You end up with a huge eroded rut then takes hours of work to repair, and keeps you from building new trail.





I love it when those who have no sweat equity in spending years building trail come in and argue. :rolleyes:

Nice sig, most of us who build trails understand; pissing off those who think riding in the mud is one of them.
marzjennings said:
It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required.
 

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Pedaler of dirt
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903 Posts
slocaus said:
Riding certain trails in the mud cuts through the drain dips that are designed to take water off the trails and prevent erosion. Then a series are cut, the cascade effect takes over and they fail one after another. You end up with a huge eroded rut then takes hours of work to repair, and keeps you from building new trail.





I love it when those who have no sweat equity in spending years building trail come in and argue. :rolleyes:

Nice sig, most of us who build trails understand; pissing off those who think riding in the mud is one of them.
That level of erosion was bound to happen the moment the vegetation was cleared to build the trail. Regardless of whether a couple of drainage bars were built or not. And it's bogus to point the finger at riders who may have ridden in wet conditions.

And you've no idea how many hours I've put in building and repairing trails. I've started and supported trails in England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Trinidad, Morocco and now the US and after all those years of work, it's still just dirt. And mother nature will come in and cause way more trail damage than any group of riders who like to get their mud on ever will.
 

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Terrain Sculptor
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marzjennings said:
No it hasn't been argued to death, the dictated position from IMBA and others is that riding muddy trails is bad for no other good reason that folks like their offroad trails to be smooth. And after 25 years of riding off road I've come to the staggering conclusion all we're arguing about is dirt. Just dirt and how some folks don't like to get their boots or tyres dirty and therefore everyone else should follow likewise.
I don't know why you'd post an answer like that in the first place. The OP was looking for ways to keep riders off muddy trails. I assume he has a good reason. There was no reason to argue at all.

If you want people to ride in the mud on trails you built. Great. If the OP doesn't want people riding his trails in the mud, he's within his rights to try to stop them.

I have both types of trails. There are signs on the ones I don't want people riding while they're wet.
 

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trail rat
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marzjennings said:
That level of erosion was bound to happen the moment the vegetation was cleared to build the trail. Regardless of whether a couple of drainage bars were built or not. And it's bogus to point the finger at riders who may have ridden in wet conditions.

And you've no idea how many hours I've put in building and repairing trails. I've started and supported trails in England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Trinidad, Morocco and now the US and after all those years of work, it's still just dirt. And mother nature will come in and cause way more trail damage than any group of riders who like to get their mud on ever will.
They are old rehabilitated roads, the only thing the State Parks would let us use. So you are saying that we should abandon the trails and have no place to hike, ride horses, and bicycles?

We put tons of work into them to keep them from eroding out completely. That sod is only in the winter; this is California, an arid desert nine months of the year.

When we keep all riders, bike and horse, off the wet trails, we have less repair to do, and that is a fact. We are at the point where we are building sustainable reroutes, but there are still miles of trails to maintain, since all the reroutes will take 10-15 years to complete. And that maintenance takes 80% of our time in the winter. In the summer, it is too dry to cut trail or do maintenance, so the winter mud damage takes away prime trail building time and energy.
 

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Pedaler of dirt
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903 Posts
Trail Ninja said:
I don't know why you'd post an answer like that in the first place. The OP was looking for ways to keep riders off muddy trails. I assume he has a good reason. There was no reason to argue at all.

If you want people to ride in the mud on trails you built. Great. If the OP doesn't want people riding his trails in the mud, he's within his rights to try to stop them.

I have both types of trails. There are signs on the ones I don't want people riding while they're wet.
These trails are on your own land then, sorry didn't realize we talking about private property where you of course get to decide who gets to ride them and when.

Otherwise hours worked on public trails have nothing to do with who get's to decide access limitations.
 

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Go SOLAR...
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Marz....is one of the guys who probably has never done an hour of trailwork, so why should he care if it's rutted or not...he's doesn't have to fix it. There are those type of people all over...selfish, and have a general lack of respect.
 

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Terrain Sculptor
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marzjennings said:
These trails are on your own land then, sorry didn't realize we talking about private property where you of course get to decide who gets to ride them and when.

Otherwise hours worked on public trails have nothing to do with who get's to decide access limitations.
All trails are on somebody's land. If it's private property as is the case with most of the trails I've built locally, then the landowner or their representative is in control of who rides when. On "public" land there will still be some sort of land manager who calls the shots.

If the trails are being abused in the eyes of the land manager, they may close them, or limit access to particular users or to particular weather conditions. One example would be CBC trail in the District of North Vancouver. Arguably one of the most famous mountain bike trails in the world. It is closed to mountain bike traffic for a couple of months every winter because it was being destroyed by people riding in the mud. The DNV has to have bylaw officers stand at the trail head and turn people away because some people don't see any harm in riding in the mud on that trail.

I'm aware of how much fun it is to ride in the mud which is why I built trails for the local middle school mountain bike club that won't hurt anything if the kids ride them in the rain and mud. I also built some freeride trails that would best be described as fragile, that won't stand up to wet weather riding. The 10 year old kids in the club get it and stay off the fragile trails when it's wet. They go and ride the hard surface trails or the mud pits.

I have more trouble with adults who see the signs and say "Who says I can't ride these trails?" and "You're not going to stop me, I'll ride where I want." These trails are mostly on private land with the landowner in agreement with my policy. A small portion is on public parkland and the parks planner is also in agreement. In both cases if the "no mud riding" policy wasn't followed, there's a very good chance the entire system would be closed. It took a lot of convincing on my part to even have the bike trails allowed in the first place.
 

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Terrain Sculptor
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bankerboy said:
Just a troll, egging you folks on.....
C'mon you gotta do better than that. At least throw in a question. 26 or 29, Presta or Schraeder, clipless or flat, ...something.

How about, if the trail was designed properly in the first place it should be able to handle wet weather riding?
 

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BM and PQ Trail Rep
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Fair enough...

Downhill vs uphill - who has the right of way?

Guns - should you carry them?

Horses - Pets or meat?

My point was the pinhead posts he lived in all these different countries and has never seen damage from riding in mud even though he has done it countless times to the point of this being his preference.

Can you say LIAR?

He is just pushing buttons. Ignore the moron and he will wither and die.
 

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Just curious, most of the trails by me were built by dirtbike riders back in the day. You could say they had a fair amount of sweat equity in them. Now they are banned and nothing enrages our local mtn bikers as much as seeing a dirtbike on the trails. Fair?
 

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pictures, videos, pleading with them via a forum, nothing is going to stop jerks from being jerks. Just hope karma (aka, forest ranger/public official) finds them and gives them their $130 justice. Personally i do the two strikes and your pic gets posted online method. First time i catch you i take your pic and teach you why you should stay off the trails. second time i post your pic on every local forum within 100 miles. I caught 6 people last year while i was doing trail work, plan to find more this spring. better learn what my truck looks like and rethink the 'trail closed' signs.

i live in an area where riding in mud is bad news. two or three marks can seriously damage outslope and create craters that hold water.
 

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DirtyMtnBikeHer said:
The trails here hardly ever officially close. We just have to encourage people not to ride them. I'm just trying to come up with new ways to show people how they affect the trails. I guess I need to get out there withmy camera!
yes please do and also take note that as before mentioned once vegetation is cleared the root structure no longer exists to hold the soil together at a level to which will ocmpletely prevent Erosion, it is dirt, is will wash away depending upon the type of granulate and clays which hold said dirt together, this picture is a perfect example of what happens with the lack of vegetation and a large spring runoff/hard rains. FYI, hard rains/runoff can even tear asphault roads up.
For me, its fun to navigate the ruts on a technical downhill, but evidently IM one of the few that actually likes to use my bike what it was made for, riding in the mtns.

Geology Soil Geological phenomenon Seep


Road surface Groundcover Tar


Mode of transport Nature People Road Fun
 

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Newt Guy
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833 Posts
What about a simple sign explaining the problem riding the particular trail when it is saturated? Maybe some geological information about soil type and the erosive properties inherent to the area. Since it would be suggestive and informational, maybe the local powers that be will approve of it and maybe even fund the sign project.
 
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