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El Capitan
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Ventana at Sea Otter
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Did you get to ride it?
Juan Speeder said:
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I managed to take a lap on the time trial track, I think on a 19".
The bike is laterally stiff as heck -- very well built and a pretty solid feeling underneath. Predictable ride coming down the hill and it soaked up the terrain fairly well, although I had a nasty endo on a mystery wet spot on the course that just about ruined my arm. Not the bike's fault, though.
I'm not all that stoked on the 4-bar design, however. I wasn't completely excited about the way this bike accelerated or climbed, and I really, really wanted a Horst link on there. Knowing full well that's not in the cards, and fully realizing that the shock wasn't completely dialed for my preferences, I can't be too critical. I think the El Capitan would couple well with an RP3, Swinger or 5th Air (I believe the demo shock was a straight Fox Float).
The bike is laterally stiff as heck -- very well built and a pretty solid feeling underneath. Predictable ride coming down the hill and it soaked up the terrain fairly well, although I had a nasty endo on a mystery wet spot on the course that just about ruined my arm. Not the bike's fault, though.
I'm not all that stoked on the 4-bar design, however. I wasn't completely excited about the way this bike accelerated or climbed, and I really, really wanted a Horst link on there. Knowing full well that's not in the cards, and fully realizing that the shock wasn't completely dialed for my preferences, I can't be too critical. I think the El Capitan would couple well with an RP3, Swinger or 5th Air (I believe the demo shock was a straight Fox Float).
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Just got some more info on the El Capitan. The rear shock will be an Fox RP3 and prob some other brands to choose from..
Weight for a large (21") is coming in at 7lbs 6oz. Not too bad considering that it has the quad bearings.
Weight for a large (21") is coming in at 7lbs 6oz. Not too bad considering that it has the quad bearings.
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Anyone know if that weight includes the rear shock?Cloxxki said:
For a durable 29" trailbike, I'd say that the weight is on par. I compares well to my naked 7 pound little-wheeled frame (a 21"Iron Horse MkIII).
Don't read too much into the "convert" comments. I spoke with Sherwood for a few minutes, and he plainly stated that he saw the benefits of big wheels for 6' guys, but not so much for himself. This bike represents a great effort and we need to applaud him for designing something outside of "his box" (ala the MBA/Richard Cunningham discussion). I wouldn't let that influence my buying decision.
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Looks very similar to a Lenz to me
Main differences in front triangle layout.
Someone mentions it's a horst link. It's not. Horst would mean the rear pivot is on the chainstay, lower than the rear axle. Both these bikes have a non-horst 4-bar design, pivot on the seat stay.
Note how similar the cutouts are just rear of the main pivot/BB on the CS's.
Noting how the Lenz features a beefy box-style chain stay, I wouldn't surprised if the Lenz is as/more stiff than the Ven. Just conjecture though. If the Vent. is 7.5 pounds, versus the ~6 or so of the Lenz, that's pretty amazing as well.
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Main differences in front triangle layout.
Someone mentions it's a horst link. It's not. Horst would mean the rear pivot is on the chainstay, lower than the rear axle. Both these bikes have a non-horst 4-bar design, pivot on the seat stay.
Note how similar the cutouts are just rear of the main pivot/BB on the CS's.
Noting how the Lenz features a beefy box-style chain stay, I wouldn't surprised if the Lenz is as/more stiff than the Ven. Just conjecture though. If the Vent. is 7.5 pounds, versus the ~6 or so of the Lenz, that's pretty amazing as well.
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Who said what?ncj01 said:
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Hey, Nate, that weight does include the rear shock, which was a Fox RP3...
Speedub.Nate said:
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Couple things...
...as to frame weight, I believe the El Cap is using straight guage tubing on the DT and maybe all of the front triangle (I know, not a triangle).
Also, I will bet money I don't have that the Ventana is stiffer. CSs aside, just look at those seatstays - makes the Lenz seatstays look like straws.
Anxious to get feedback from someone who's had a chance to ride both.
Sean
...as to frame weight, I believe the El Cap is using straight guage tubing on the DT and maybe all of the front triangle (I know, not a triangle).
Also, I will bet money I don't have that the Ventana is stiffer. CSs aside, just look at those seatstays - makes the Lenz seatstays look like straws.
Anxious to get feedback from someone who's had a chance to ride both.
Sean
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Come on Sean? Which is it? Weight weenie or beefie bob?Soupboy said:
I've thrown the Lenz around for a few months now....and being a hardtail lover...I feel I have a good persective on this...the Lenz is STIFF....
Pedaling the Ventana around it felt like it bob's more than the Lenz and that it's heavier....
Friday... i really put the Lenz to the test at Demo Forest...and I was very impressed....
The Ventana is decidely heavier...I wouldn't think that someone like you would be into that....is it "stiffer" though?
It doesn't feel that way at at the pedals....
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OK, I'll ask the boss to take the FAQ offline, so we can charge good money for it
Yeah, someone do Sherwood back the favor and borrow him a WB 1.0 and a proper wheelset. Not something you find on a typical road bike.
The Ventana seems to be built with different objectives than the Lenz, which is good. Although looking similarly, it does offer some 35% more travel, and is referred to as trail bike. If the builder himself gets himself photo'd riding up stairs on a maiden ride, I can only imagine what projected customers will do to it. WB fork, proper wheels, try that and let us know. That a 26" icon doesn't come bag whining about how heavy the thing is, says something about the plans he has for the bike, I like that. Does he have some serious tires already? If Sherwood's going to really search for the limits of his 29" trailbike, please let it not be on the same tire I rate as "rear tire only, unless on really lame trails, and sand.".
Is have to join the applause, new 29" model, and immediately sizes from 17" to 23", that rocks!
Yeah, someone do Sherwood back the favor and borrow him a WB 1.0 and a proper wheelset. Not something you find on a typical road bike.
The Ventana seems to be built with different objectives than the Lenz, which is good. Although looking similarly, it does offer some 35% more travel, and is referred to as trail bike. If the builder himself gets himself photo'd riding up stairs on a maiden ride, I can only imagine what projected customers will do to it. WB fork, proper wheels, try that and let us know. That a 26" icon doesn't come bag whining about how heavy the thing is, says something about the plans he has for the bike, I like that. Does he have some serious tires already? If Sherwood's going to really search for the limits of his 29" trailbike, please let it not be on the same tire I rate as "rear tire only, unless on really lame trails, and sand.".
Is have to join the applause, new 29" model, and immediately sizes from 17" to 23", that rocks!
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Father...
...are you still on me for my criticism of the Exi? Dang that tire is tough to love...I've officially got a pair of low mileage Exis for sale or trade for some Bonty XRs.
Regardless, rotational weight is totally different discussion from frame weight (and I know you know this better than I). I digress.
For the record, I ain't no WW. Can't be given my big carcass (250#). Ozlongboarder's Salty felt stiffer than my Turner RFX - hence my default to Ventana on that matter. Further, Shiggy's note that Sherwood is employing beefier stays on the 21" bikes only makes me more confident of my stiffness wager (as hollow as it may be).
I'd really like to get MC's feedback once he's had a chance to ride an El Cap properly set up as he seems to have the most varied and lengthy saddle time on FS 29ers.
Also, has the Astrix Monk reared its head at SO? [Not to hijack this Ventana-themed thread].
Sean
...are you still on me for my criticism of the Exi? Dang that tire is tough to love...I've officially got a pair of low mileage Exis for sale or trade for some Bonty XRs.
Regardless, rotational weight is totally different discussion from frame weight (and I know you know this better than I). I digress.
For the record, I ain't no WW. Can't be given my big carcass (250#). Ozlongboarder's Salty felt stiffer than my Turner RFX - hence my default to Ventana on that matter. Further, Shiggy's note that Sherwood is employing beefier stays on the 21" bikes only makes me more confident of my stiffness wager (as hollow as it may be).
I'd really like to get MC's feedback once he's had a chance to ride an El Cap properly set up as he seems to have the most varied and lengthy saddle time on FS 29ers.
Also, has the Astrix Monk reared its head at SO? [Not to hijack this Ventana-themed thread].
Sean
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