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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The Valles Caldera National Preserve is opening it's gates again this year to Mountain Bikers on two summer weekends. You can ride the Forest Roads of the Caldera on
- June 24 or 25
- August 12 or 13.

This year we are able to combine all of the roads previously used (except one*). This gives us 60+ miles of forest roads this year. There will be no set routes, you're free to choose your own route from the map of available forest roads. (There are two old logging roads that have more of a single track feel, the Abrigo loop and the Headquarters loop.)

For more information and a map of the open roads go to:
http://www.calderaadventure.com

*Preserve Road VC0301, which everyone agreed is a fantastic segment, is not available. The Valles Caldera has not completed it's Archaeologic survey of this segment. New segments in the Northwestern part of the Preserve have been added.
 

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I ride with tools
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So, since this is public land, bought and paid for by our tax dollars, riding in the Preserve will not cost anything, right?
 

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crap magnet
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Jim Beam said:
So, since this is public land, bought and paid for by our tax dollars, riding in the Preserve will not cost anything, right?
Whoa! Deja Vu all over again!
 

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So bikers get all of 4 opportunities, at $20 a whack, yet the same price gets horse riders 40 dates from which to choose? And 28 dates for hikers, at $10 each? Since the whole impudence of charging citizens to access unimproved public lands was addressed last summer, I'll simply point out that there appears to be a lack of balance in the focus of the VCT board.
- Joe
 

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LAVolunteer said:
The Valles Caldera National Preserve is opening it's gates again this year to Mountain Bikers on two summer weekends. You can ride the Forest Roads of the Caldera on
- June 24 or 25
- August 12 or 13.

This year we are able to combine all of the roads previously used (except one*). This gives us 60+ miles of forest roads this year. There will be no set routes, you're free to choose your own route from the map of available forest roads. (There are two old logging roads that have more of a single track feel, the Abrigo loop and the Headquarters loop.)

For more information and a map of the open roads go to:
http://www.calderaadventure.com

*Preserve Road VC0301, which everyone agreed is a fantastic segment, is not available. The Valles Caldera has not completed it's Archaeologic survey of this segment. New segments in the Northwestern part of the Preserve have been added.
I would like to inform the Valles Caldera Management that MTBR will soon create a new policy. You will not be able to post here anymore, except on the following days;

- June 24 or 25
- August 12 or 13

However, you will not be able to look at pictures, and you will be charged $20 for each day you choose to post here.

Please enjoy yourself under these conditions. :rolleyes:
 

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Excellent!

Timo said:
I would like to inform the Valles Caldera Management that MTBR will soon create a new policy. You will not be able to post here anymore, except on the following days;

- June 24 or 25
- August 12 or 13

However, you will not be able to look at pictures, and you will be charged $20 for each day you choose to post here.

Please enjoy yourself under these conditions. :rolleyes:
Great post, Matt! I coulodn't have said it better.

Except, I would add my true feelings toward the Trust: :ciappa:
 

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Pull the string...

NuMexJoe said:
Since the whole impudence of charging citizens to access unimproved public lands was addressed last summer, I'll simply point out that there appears to be a lack of balance in the focus of the VCT board.
And acting like free-loading malcontents encourages them to take a more balanced view of us how?

Sigh. So little activity on this board, only to see this tired old argument rise from the dead. :madman:

If anyone is interested in some background on this topic, including some reasons why the VC acts the way it does, I would suggest this thread and this one. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.
 

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alizhan said:
And acting like free-loading malcontents encourages them to take a more balanced view of us how?

Sigh. So little activity on this board, only to see this tired old argument rise from the dead. :madman:
Nice way to elevate yourself above others. Perhaps you address your insecurites in much the same way.

If you really want to claim the posters here are acting on ignorance, perhaps you might want to ask some questions. Heaven forbid educated people form opinions based on facts that do noit agree with YOUR views. Many believe the Trust is taking advantage of cyclists and not being fair. Tired old arguments...sheesh, couldn't that be said of the Trust as well?

So why turn it personal?.....perhaps then your thoughts on the VC were really NOT the point of your post.

Thanks for letting us know of your sainthood. Please continue to wear it on your sleeve.
 

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Well said Timo, NMJ, and JB.

Alizhan, I'm still failing to see just why we (mtb'ers) should jump up and down like terriers at these sorry little scraps the VC keeps trying to feed us.:confused:
 

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Jim Beam said:
Great post, Matt! I coulodn't have said it better.

Except, I would add my true feelings toward the Trust: :ciappa:
Nice my brother. I love to pay $20 dollars so I can enjoy boring trails and share my day with my beloved horse people.:D
 

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Bad judgement in motion!
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Overreact much?

Timo said:
Nice way to elevate yourself above others.
hypothetical adj Suppositional, conjectural. (The American Heritage Dictionary)

Here, I'll fill in the blanks this time: "And [us, the mountain biking community] acting like free-loading [we want it free] malcontents [we'll snipe at every mention of the VC until we get our way] encourages them [the VC Trust] to take a more balanced view of us [mountain bikers as a viable and desirable asset to be cultivated] how?"

How does a hypothetical question "elevate me above others"?

Timo said:
If you really want to claim the posters here are acting on ignorance,
I made no such claim: the links were a courtesy for people who might not be familiar with this topic. Not everything I write is directed at you.

Timo said:
Heaven forbid educated people form opinions based on facts that do noit agree with YOUR views.
Strange: I remember suggesting that very thing, although I phrased it as "draw your own conclusions."

Timo said:
Many believe the Trust is taking advantage of cyclists and not being fair.
And many do not. Are they not allowed their opinion?

Timo said:
Tired old arguments...sheesh, couldn't that be said of the Trust as well?
I never said otherwise. You assumed that I was speaking only of the posters in this thread. I'm tired of the whole damn argument--and misunderstandings like this are one of the primary reasons.

Timo said:
So why turn it personal?
I didn't. You did.
 

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AndyN said:
Alizhan, I'm still failing to see just why we (mtb'ers) should jump up and down like terriers at these sorry little scraps the VC keeps trying to feed us.:confused:
I never said that we should. I think bikers are getting short shrift out there, too, and the threads from last summer covered that imbalance pretty well (that's why I linked them). But I also fail to see how throwing what little they do offer back in their faces helps us, either. All that will do is convince them that bikers are more trouble than they're worth, and result in even less access.

Some people are perfectly willing to pay $20 to ride restricted land, even if it is just old dirt roads. You may think that's crazy and unfair: they don't. I happen to think that having a somewhat pear-shaped choice is still better than having no choice at all. Whatever decision one makes, at least one had the choice. Some on this board would apparently prefer that even the current meager choice be taken away, have it be all or nothing, completely free or completely unavailable, with us or against us . . . I just don't understand that attitude. Why take another person's choice away?

Thank you, btw, for actually discussing the issue with me, instead of just assuming I'm some sanctimonious troll in need of a public spanking.
 

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alizhan said:
I'm tired of the whole damn argument--and misunderstandings like this are one of the primary reasons..
Yeah you certainly put enough effort into the resposne to show how tired you are. ....:rolleyes:
 

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perropirana said:
Nice my brother. I love to pay $20 dollars so I can enjoy boring trails and share my day with my beloved horse people.:D
I must be in the minority. I thoroughly enjoyed the ride last year. I must admit that the super-wide jeep trails were not that energizing, but the views sure were awesome. But, it all came together when I began the ascent up "The Lollipop". This turned into a neat single-trackish trail that ran along one of the peaks there. I hung on by my fingernails, but managed to climb it without having to dismount. Then the ascent down was a blast. I am excited that the VCT is extending the trails and is letting us "fend for ourselves". $20 is a bit hard to swallow when in the light of how they treat others. But I had such a great time that I even coughed up a few extra dollars for a t-shirt.
 

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Look, I would just like to be able to ride out there. Period. As a resident of Taos, I'm aware of any archeological minded concerns etc, etc, etc.

After visiting the Valles Caldera HQ in Los Alamos last year I completely understand why things are setup in such an awkward way. The managers, middle managers, senior managers, vice presidents and support staff that make up the office over there need to keep things humming along at a certain rate to maintain their jobs. To us, that means zero access.

Heck, all I wanted to do was maybe just wander around for an hour or two since the Nuke Museum was closed on the day I was in Los Alamos. They said that I would be put on a waiting list for guided tours sometime next year.

I could go into alot more detail, but I share the same views with everyone else here. You know how I stand.

Note: The Valle Vidal was deeded to the government in a similar fashion and other than the thermal vents it's a similar property. It provides near 100% access year round and only a few special restrictions for fishing. If the Valles Caldera were run in a similar manner then there would not be the hate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Trying Desperately to Gain more access

I am one of the volunteers trying to help put these mountain biking weekends together. I'm the same as you guys. I think access is way too severely limited. I'd like to see some single track up there. I'd like to see them open it up on more then just two weekends with an area for mountain bikers just like the do for horse riders.

My motivation for doing all this work is to at least give folks a chance to get up there for the time they are giving us. I hope the Caldera management will see that we are a large group of people who want more access. We are probably the largest group to hold a single day event on the Caldera. We brought a lot of money into their coffers last year.

I might be deluded in thinking that they will accept that mountain bikers are good for the Caldera's future and that they should try to accommodate us a lot more. I'm hoping the new executive director, Jeff Cross, will have more interested in varied recreation. He has a recreation background and seems like he wants to improve the recreation program at the Caldera.

All I know is that I am working hard to get bikers on the Caldera even for only the four days we are allocated. I get a lot of pleasure out of seeing folks being able to enjoy the views and ride the forest road. I think biking the Caldera is a lot better then being carted around in a van for a tour.
 

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LAVolunteer said:
All I know is that I am working hard to get bikers on the Caldera even for only the four days we are allocated. I get a lot of pleasure out of seeing folks being able to enjoy the views and ride the forest road.
I know from personal experience that volunteering can be a thankless job, especially when emotions run high (as they obviously do regarding the VC). So I would like to thank you for your hard work, and the opportunity that it provides to the biking community. Regardless of whether each of us chooses to partake of that opportunity or not, it is through efforts such as yours that we have that choice in the first place.

Helmet tipped to you, and keep up the good work. :thumbsup:
 

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I just wanted to post some personal experience with Valles Caldera.

I purchased lottery tickets for a day of fishing with my dad earlier this spring. We arrived early, heard a little safety lecture and then set out to fish our "beat" of the stream. Let me say that the folks at the Valles Caldera Preserve have done a wonderful job keeping the place in great shape! There was no trash, no fishing line, no screaming crowds, no people roaring around in their vehicles, suffice to say that it is the closest thing to the wilderness that we normally encounter in NM. If you question my reasoning I suggest that you go and walk along the Jemez River, or the Pecos for 15 mins and bring a trash bag, you'll need it! The last time I saw such beautiful scenery, wildlife and fishing I was in the Weminuche Wilderness in CO.

The Valles Caldera Preserve is worth EVERY penny of tax dollars and access fees they receive.
 
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