[steelduck]

Uzzi VPX - 5th Element Axle and spacers?

I just got my Uzzi VPX with the 5th Element yesterday. I noticed today the spacers around rear axle that hold the shock in place are really loose. The spacers roll around the bolt freely and the other spacer (left one) on the rear actually has 1-2mm sideways play. ie. I can move it left and right 1-2mm on the axle.

All three Uzzi's that came to Finland have this 1-2mm play on the left rear spacer.
Does it exist also on the DHX and Swinger equipped Uzzi?

 

[steelduck]

Here are some pics of the spacer. The spacer on the right side sits snugly, but there is quite a lot of free movement on the left. I seems that the shock is actually a bit skewed to the right...
It's a same thing on all three Uzzi's here. https://steelduck.com/public/uzzi_shock_spacer/index.htm

 

[steelduck]

I would REALLY appriciate if all you VPX owners could check if your Uzzis have this play on the LEFT rear spacer. (left lookin from above sitting on the bike)

 

[peachy-B]

a friend of mine had a somewhat similar problem before w/ his cove peeler. except his did not have those spacers AT ALL. according to the bike shop 5th did not supply them the spacers. i dnt know. anyway, we checked all their peelers that came w/ the 5th and they were all w/o them so it's kinda believable. anyways, he realized this when the shock started shifting, obviously to one side, and was hitting the frame. the bike shop made some spacers for him, some tube and pipe cutters/saw from what i remember... so when we got back to the shop they've added spacers on all of them. i guess what i'm saying is that maybe those are the spacers that 5th supplied them.

i know it would bother me as well. i would want those spacers to fit perfectly the width of the pivot bracket. the fact that it rolls is not as impt... just the width.... and that shock eye is positioned bang-on in the middle. equal width spacers?

do u think u could get a machine shop to make u one w/ the right width, should be too hard? intense should be the one making u this actually.

 

[steelduck]

Now that I have investigated it more. It seems that the shock is a bit skewed to the right. ie. if the shock is just attached to the top axle, it does not align to the center on the lower axle. It aligns about 2-3mm to the right.

I released the shock from the rear attachements. Centered the shock on the axle. Put the spacers back, so that there is an even amount of play on both sides. Attached the shock. Sat on the bike. -> and the shock had moved back to the right.

It seems that there is a small miss aligment between the swing and frame, which causes this and this is a "fix" for that. I checked a few of my friends hi-end bikes.(Cannfield F1, Demo 9) etc. and there is no 2mm play on those frames.

Here are the pics:
http://steelduck.com/public/uzzi_shock_spacer/index.htm

I am still waiting for other Uzzi VPX owners to verify if this is just the 4 frames shipped here or is this a common "feature" on all Uzzis.

 

[peachy-B]

i know this is all theory here.... but i wonder if they did this so that any misalignment of the front to the swingarm would be allowed by that remaining space. scary that it would have that misalignment though. wouldn't that put unecessary side-to-side stress on the rear shock and the bearings?

i saw a knolly frame once in person and the 2 bars that passes on the side of the seat tube are pretty close to it. say 2 mm on each side of the seat tube. a misalignment of that much would make those bars hit the ST. i saw myb a 0.5mm of difference between the L and R side.

i think sanata cruz had some alignment issues as well. the problems were on the bearings busting in a short time.

i wonder what intense would say about that. u dnt want to call them right away? u must have a store to have access to all those frames.

 

[steelduck]

I noticed this on friday night - sent them an email. They replied within an hour and asked me to call them, but it was allready night in the US before I noticed their reply. I will call them tomorrow.

The fact is that if I only attach the shock from the front and place the rear eyelet of the shock between the VPP link without the Axle and shims - it does not center. It is skewed to the right as you can see in the pictures. Ihope there is a simple solution for this. I do not think the shock likes to be "bent" against the left shim..

ps. Still waiting for the US guys to check their frames.. Please.

 

[knollybikes.com]

I can't speak for your frame...

...But since Knolly was mentioned here, I can add a small amount of insight:

The "spacers" on the axles are designed to let the shock eye let "float" somewhat. not a huge amount, but a small amount. If those spacers were tight, then they would bind during compression of the shock, sometimes resulting in a small grinding noise.

The shocks sometime come with the axles pressed in not quite centered. Sometimes they are only 0.5mm to 1.0mm to the left or two the right, but it's enough to make one of the spacers be tight between the shock eyelet and the frame linkage. You can remove the shock, and press the axle so that it is in the center and both spacers float a bit on either side of the shock eyelet. Beyond that, I can't give any more insight into your actual situation as I am (obviously) not the manufacturer of your frame.

Also as an aside concerning our V-tach frame, as Peachy-B stated, we have horizontal links that are fairly close to the seat tube. However, the shock does not determine the alignment of those linkages - the rest of the frame does.

Regards,

Noel Buckley

 

[steelduck]

I talked with the Intense guys. They basically said that there is nothing to worry about but they will look into it and if it really bothers me I can send the bike back for inspection. ie. Go ride..

Thanks Knollybikes for the tip, but the axle is centered. Here are some pics of the aligment of the shock with just the front attached and the axle centered. As you can see, I have to actually "push" the shock in order to get it between the VPP link when the axle is centered.

https://steelduck.com/public/uzzi_shock_aligment/index.htm

Now I have to figure out if this worries me. (it does)I payed so much for the frame, I just want it to be perfect... I would really appriciate if other Uzzi owners could check theirs.

 

[peachy-B]

hope my small frame wouldn't have this.

i would be worry too if i was on your shoes.

 

[steelduck]

Please post your findings on other Uzzis. Espesially ones with DHX or Swingers as I was told by Intense that it could be the shock bushings that are doing this. Luckily I have the best bike importer on the planet here... He will dig into this. I really hope I get this fixed fast as the bike is awesome - I have never ridden anything like it.

Here is a picture of the front bushing area when the axle on the rear is centered and pushed between the VPP links. Notice that the left front spacer is not inline with the shock. I am getting nuts. I think I will move to the singlespeed world...

An other Finn with a same issue started a conversation on this at the Ride Monkey. His pictures are at the end of the thread.
https://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115734

 

[ILikeFood]

I've changed the spring three times on my VPX (with a Fox DHX) and everything seems totally "normal" on mine. The is no play and the shock lines up perfectly with the upper link.

-f00d

 

[steelduck]

I like food: Is your rear wheel centered between the seatstays? Mine is not. I have to try with on other shock and other wheel tonight.

 

[Masse]

Here`s some more evidence. This just isn`t right.
I released the rear end of shock from linkage, measured how much more it was on the right side... 4 mm! There was 12,5 mm axle on the right side and 16,5 mm on the left side. I the aligned the axle with the shock, and surprise, surprise, IT DIDN`T GO RIGHT INTO THE LINKAGE! I had to force it to the left to get it in.

Before taking it apart, notice how much play there is between spacer and linkage. Shock is leaning against right side bushing. This is how it came out of box.



After dissassembling and taking spacers off, heres a look how much axle was on the other side. It hasn`t been touched at all after dissassembly.



After centering the axle, there is equal amount of axle on both sides.



And other end of the axle...



Update:

I measured the ditstance between point A and B.
A is center of that shock bolt hole, B is the edge of that bearing bolt/cap (It`s fixed to the fram, so it doesn`t move as linkage parts may do when shock is off, and that might cause inaccuracy.)
I measured both sides 4 times.



Result: Distance on the right side is 25,6 cm, left side 25,5 cm.
So, hole on the right is further in front than left hole. That is enough to slowly tweak shock`s rear end to right, until it leans agains bushing. That can be seen in Steelduck`s last picture. When the shock`s axles are centered, shock�s front end bushings are not in line with the shock.

Am I right?

 

[steelduck]

Yes, you are right.

We (the importer and I) measured the left and right side "eye to eye" distance with the shock removed.

There is a a approx 1mm diffence between the sides. The right side is longer which makes the fromt axle to be misaligned and then causes the symtoms seen above.

We measure the same difference on a brand new frame also. ie. all the four frames shipped to Finland have the same issue.

To eliminate the possiblity of Shock bushing problem. We did the following:
We tested with a brand new 5th Element shock on my frame. -> Same issue.
We tested with an old proven 5th element from a used bike -> Same issue.
I turned my shock 180 degrees. ie. Swapped the axles and installed the shock other way around. -> Same issue.

I leave this now to the hands of the importer. Luckily Intense is known for their good customer support - we just needed to find out/proof the reason for this as I did not wan't to send my frame to US for no reason.

I am still interested if this is just the 4 frames shipped to Finland or is it a common issue. I think the tighter spacer fittings on other shock brands might mask the issue.

 

[peachy-B]

Uh-oh. sounds like a huge production problem from Intense. Intense haven't found the problems yet?

SteelDuck ands Masse... 2 different person right?

 

[flavi]

Yes they are two different persons.

 

[steelduck]

Uh-oh. sounds like a huge production problem from Intense. Intense haven't found the problems yet?

SteelDuck ands Masse... 2 different person right?

There is actually a third guy named Boot on the Ridemonkey forum with the same issue. Masse has the baby blue VPX, I have the Red and Boot seems to have a black one.

 

[Masse]

I had to buy 12 beers to cope with this situation..
Ok, that was the "funny" part. Time to get serious.
I took some photos of Boot`s VPX. We took axle and spacers of from the rear eyelet and tightened the front axle. Here`s what it looked like:



As you can see, it`s really tweaked to other side, 10 mm to be precise! We also made same measurements as I did to my frame, and got same results. What we found out is that the hole on the right side is also 1 mm higher than other one.

 

[peachy-B]

n10s,

are u following this? i'm starting to regret my deposit on that small frame.

masse,

10mm? that's HUGE! u've ridden this already (mud). i wonder what the shock is like inside right now. That excellent intense customer service better start kicking-in soon.