[Team Green Steve]

Hi,

I am interested in hearing people's experience with running the Stan's ZTR Olympic rims with non-UST tires and no tubes for endurance races. I have been using the Crossmax SL wheels for 3 or 4 seasons now, with UST tires, and have not had a flat. I am tempted to switch to the Stan's rims with non-UST tires and the rim strips/sealant. This looks like it would save about 100 grams/wheel. My only concern is the hassle this setup may present, and also, the prospect of flatting mid-race. I would hate to blow a position in a 24 hour race due to this setup. Is anyone running it for endurance races? Do you consider it to be reliable?

Thanks.

 

[hairball_dh]

Hi,

I am interested in hearing people's experience with running the Stan's ZTR Olympic rims with non-UST tires and no tubes for endurance races. I have been using the Crossmax SL wheels for 3 or 4 seasons now, with UST tires, and have not had a flat. I am tempted to switch to the Stan's rims with non-UST tires and the rim strips/sealant. This looks like it would save about 100 grams/wheel. My only concern is the hassle this setup may present, and also, the prospect of flatting mid-race. I would hate to blow a position in a 24 hour race due to this setup. Is anyone running it for endurance races? Do you consider it to be reliable?

Thanks.

I haven't used the Stans rims, but have gone with the rest of the setup - non UST tires, Stans inserts + latex sealant. I have only *raced* with wire beaded tires using the setup, and have yet to experience a failure mid-race. I've used kevlar beaded tires in training until they've worn out with no probs. One thing I did find is some Kenda tires don't seal well with stans - the Karma for sure, perhaps others.

I'd have to believe the ZTRs will only work better...hopefully others will chime in.

 

[Team Green Steve]

Valuable input

Thanks, Dave. That's definitely encouraging news.

I have a few questions for you:

(1) Are you racing exclusively with this setup, or are you reverting to tubes for certain races?

(2) Why are you only using the kevlar beads for training? Are you worried that the kevlar beads won't hold up for races?

(3) Do you think this is a legitimate setup for 24 hour solos? I'd hate to lose a placing in a big 24 due to this wheel/tire setup.

Thanks again.

 

[hairball_dh]

Thanks, Dave. That's definitely encouraging news.

I have a few questions for you:

(1) Are you racing exclusively with this setup, or are you reverting to tubes for certain races?

I never use tubes, except for when I do get flats 2 for 3 in the Park City series in '06 Sometimes I use UST tires, sometimes non-UST w/conversions. Depends on the course, what I think I can get away with. Non-UST tires are not as resistant to game ending punctures - there's a reason they tend to be 100-200g heavier.

(2) Why are you only using the kevlar beads for training? Are you worried that the kevlar beads won't hold up for races?

It's a bit of a holdover from when I rode 29ers. At the time, Stan recommended wire beaded tires for 29er conversions ('05). More often than not I use UST tires. The few times I've used standard tires for 24s all I could get my mits on were wire beaded.

(3) Do you think this is a legitimate setup for 24 hour solos? I'd hate to lose a placing in a big 24 due to this wheel/tire setup.

I've asked myself this several times over. The thing is, at the start of a race if I have UST spares on hand, they end up getting mounted for race use. Before the race I think I want the lightweight aspects of the conversion; come racetime I want reliability. The time savings 200g gets you is nothing compared to the time it takes to fix a flat, especially a flat at 2am when you're not the sharpest tool around.

 

[Team Green Steve]

Before the race I think I want the lightweight aspects of the conversion; come racetime I want reliability. The time savings 200g gets you is nothing compared to the time it takes to fix a flat, especially a flat at 2am when you're not the sharpest tool around.

This is the exact dilemma I've been pondering for a few months now, and I think your answer confirms my hesitation. Thanks for your inout.

Anyone else have any thoughts/experience on this?

 

[MichaelW]

I have done 24 solos & the Durango 100 on my Stans wheels with Notubes and they are great. If you check your sealent before you leave for the race you are good. I have been riding my wheels for the past two years9not just racing) with great results. I did the durango 100 and finishe with some nice damage to the side wall of my tire and I then rode that same tire in the 24 hours in Moab. NEVER WENT FLAT!!

My 2 cents!

 

[CulBaire]

I've been using this setup for quiet some time now and I believe it is deffinatly worth the cost. Previously I was running UST rims, with kevlar beed tyres and sealent and that setup work just as well. The stans saves an ass load of weight which is why I went that setup. I generally stick to Kenda kevlar beaded tyres as they are cheap, and offer loads of different tread paterns, and seal up with stans quiet well.

Problems - I have only ever had one issue during a race with this setup. A tyre burped after a slow leak - it was a simple re-inflate and I was right to go. :thumbsup:

 

[Duckman]

I use both and prefer the ZTR rims with Stans and std tires. I've had one tubeless flat since 02 which was during the Firewater 50 in N Ga this last Aug. Cut sidewall. Stuck a tube in and had a great ride otherwise. Just as reliable (if not more so)as reg UST, especially if maintained with fresh sealant every few months. This month I raced the Snake Creek Gap 34 mile TT(a trail thats famous for eating tires) with some already cut(sidewalls) 2 year old Kenda Karma DTCs mounted on ZTRs tubeless. Had zero probs and will race them yet again next week in the same race(3 race series). With ZTR/std tire setup, you get to ride much lighter wheels and tires. Thats hard to argue with. ymmv.

 

[Team Green Steve]

How difficult are they to inflate?

Sounds like some of you are having luck with this setup. Here's a question for you -- how hard is it to replace a tire and inflate it? Do you need an air compressor?

The issue is, I travel (fly) to many of my races, and this means packing the bikes up in their boxes. I usually deflate the tires partially when putting them in the boxes. Am I going to need to bring a compressor with me to each of these races now to reinflate the tires if they go empty?

 

[redsnakebite]

My Experience

Hey Steve,

I have had good success with Stans rim strips for my tubeless conversion of my DT Swiss XR 1540 wheelset. No flats, etc. However, I always have used UST Tires which as we all know are heavier. In fact, I rode this set up at 24 Hrs of Big Bear (solo) last year.

This year I am experimenting with non-UST tires on both the DT Swiss Wheels and a new set of Crossmax. I have never been able to inflate a non-UST tire with a floorpump in a tubeless set up.

Later,
Brett
www.realestatecyclist.blogspot.com

 

[used2Bhard]

Compressor

I always need a compressor to mount up the tires the first time. Once they have sealed, I can often inflate them with a floor pump afterward. If you just partially deflate them, and keep the bead sealed you will have no trouble getting the air back in them.

I have ran Schwalbe, Kenda, Specialized, Nokian, Bontrager, Maxxis, and Michelin's this way. I find that the MIchelins roll the fastest, mount and seal the easiest and have the strongest sidewalls. I used to run UST's on my training wheels and standards on the race wheels. I have had such good luck with the Michelins that I don't even bother with the UST's anymore. XCR mud up front, and Mud or Dry2 in the back.

Compared to my old setup Larsen TT UST and Crossmax SL's, my new set (Olympic rim, 240 hub, Michelin std tire) saves 700 grams! Even with a light UST tire you are saving 500 grams....

 

[kev0153]

I was running Stans Olympic rim with sealant. No problems with the rims but watch what tire you run. I was running nobby nics and was cutting side walls on the rocky trails in Maryland. I went back to UST tires for better reliability (mostly for the thicker sidewalls). I run sealant in them.

The time savings 200g gets you is nothing compared to the time it takes to fix a flat, especially a flat at 2am when you're not the sharpest tool around.

This sums up my bike setup philosophy exactly.

 

[Team Green Steve]

I was running nobby nics and was cutting side walls on the rocky trails in Maryland.

This is good to know since I have a Schwalbe sponsorship and live in Maryland and do most of my offroad training at Gambrill.

I think I am going to stick with the '07 XTR wheelsets that Titus is offering on my team bikes. I don't think the added stress of the Stan's rim, rim strips, etc., is worth it, especially when I'm flying around the country to different 24s.

Thanks for the input guys.

 

[mikesee]

I have been using the Crossmax SL wheels for 3 or 4 seasons now, with UST tires, and have not had a flat.

I am tempted to switch to the Stan's rims with non-UST tires and the rim strips/sealant. This looks like it would save about 100 grams/wheel.

Your first statement is phenomenal in and of itself. Very, very few people can claim to have gone years without a flat.

But your second statement is the truly amazing one. You'd give up your good fortune (and all of the time saved NOT fixing flats) to save 100g/wheel?

That's crazy talk. 100g is nothing. Not even worth mentioning.

Stick with what you've been using.

MC

 

[Team Green Steve]

Your first statement is phenomenal in and of itself. Very, very few people can claim to have gone years without a flat.

But your second statement is the truly amazing one. You'd give up your good fortune (and all of the time saved NOT fixing flats) to save 100g/wheel?

That's crazy talk. 100g is nothing. Not even worth mentioning.

Stick with what you've been using.

MC

Yep, 10 24 hour solos, 3 12 hour solos, 5 100 milers, a bunch of shorter races, and lots of training rides all without a single flat. I'm probably jinxing myself by writing this!

 

[EBG 18T]

Hi,

I I have been using the Crossmax SL wheels for 3 or 4 seasons now, with UST tires, and have not had a flat. I am tempted to switch to the Stan's rims with non-UST tires and the rim strips/sealant. This looks like it would save about 100 grams/wheel. My only concern is the hassle this setup may present, and also, the prospect of flatting mid-race.
Thanks.

I was in the similar situation with almost never having a flat w/ Crossmax's and UST tires. I looked at the weight savings of going to a NON-UST tire on my crossmax's and saving 200g a tire was eye openning.

BUT. I ended up flatting every event in 2006 using NON-UST tires with sealant. I had sidewall damage in several tires. Also the excessive burping meant i had to stop and top off the air pressure in the tires. At the 24hrs of MOAB i had 3 flats using non-ust tires w/ sealent. Once i went back to a regular ust tire or a tire/tube combo everything was fine.

It might have just been my bad luck, but i am currently looking for new UST tires for 2007. In retro spect the 200gr a tire weight savings was nice, it was not worth my hassle. I want to go low maintance next year.

 

[GspotRider]

Yep, 10 24 hour solos, 3 12 hour solos, 5 100 milers, a bunch of shorter races, and lots of training rides all without a single flat. I'm probably jinxing myself by writing this!

Pretty amazing to go so long without flats!

Just another thought: If you built up a really light wheel set using ZTR rims and STILL used UST tires...would you save significant weight? Perhaps that is one way to lose weight and still have fantastic flat resistance.

Good luck on your 2007 season.

 

[used2Bhard]

Schwabe

This is good to know since I have a Schwalbe sponsorship and live in Maryland and do most of my offroad training at Gambrill.

I think I am going to stick with the '07 XTR wheelsets that Titus is offering on my team bikes. I don't think the added stress of the Stan's rim, rim strips, etc., is worth it, especially when I'm flying around the country to different 24s.

Thanks for the input guys.

After slashing up a few RR's I won't run the schwalbe standard tires tubeless unless it is a very tame and fast course. I have not had any cutting problems with the standard michelins.

 

[il2mb]

not a racer but been using

the Notubes, ZTR Olympics with Stans for almost 3 years now. Consistently riding aggressive XC 3 - 4 days a week and have experienced no flats. I use the UST WTB Weirwolfs front and back. In fact I go for weeks without having to top the air off. The wheels were built up by Dave's Speed Dreams and are extraordinarily reliable. I check the sealant every 3 months. When I mount a new tire I do check the bead very carefully and clean the surface thoroughly to get a good seal and I'm able to do it with a floor pump.