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Pivot Firebird
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Been running Mavic 819s for past two years with non UST tires. Been very successful with Stans. Ready for a new wheel set.

Is running Non-UST tires on a UST rim with Stans overkill? Shuold I consider other rims with rim strips, or is a UST rim the best option with non UST tires to eliminate problems. thanks
 

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It's almost always....

less hassle to use a rim designed for tubeless than it is to convert a standard rim to tubeless, whether you intend to run UST tires or regular tires. My preference is for the
"Tubeless Ready" (TLR) systems like Bontragers. Basically a regular rim with a UST spec bead and a standard open spoke bed. You simply add a plastic rim strip and valve that are specifically designed for the rim to seal up the spoke bed to make them tubeless. They can then be run without tubes using UST tires with or without sealant, and TLR or Regular tires with sealant. I find them more versitile. I can run them in a regular configuration with cloth strips and tubes, or set up tubeless at a whim.

Anyway, IMHO it's better to go with rims that are specifically designed to be run tubeless, regardless of what tires you intend to run. Fewer problems in my experience.

Good Dirt
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Squash said:
less hassle to use a rim designed for tubeless than it is to convert a standard rim to tubeless, whether you intend to run UST tires or regular tires. My preference is for the
"Tubeless Ready" (TLR) systems like Bontragers. Basically a regular rim with a UST spec bead and a standard open spoke bed. You simply add a plastic rim strip and valve that are specifically designed for the rim to seal up the spoke bed to make them tubeless. They can then be run without tubes using UST tires with or without sealant, and TLR or Regular tires with sealant. I find them more versitile. I can run them in a regular configuration with cloth strips and tubes, or set up tubeless at a whim.

Anyway, IMHO it's better to go with rims that are specifically designed to be run tubeless, regardless of what tires you intend to run. Fewer problems in my experience.

Good Dirt
Thanks for the timely response!

That's what I was thinking as well but wanted to consider my options. MIght have to look into Bontragers. What's the point of their rim strip? To avoid having the doohickey things that MAvic using by having a sealed rim? I would imagine that's the case. thanks
 

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You have less potential of a rim leak with a UST rim that has a solid inner wall (though the tape or molded rim strip on Bontrager and Stans rims are very reliable and easy to install), BUT the bead hook is specifically designed for UST spec tire beads. So they are best for UST Tubeless and Tubeless Ready tires that have UST spec beads. IME the Mavic UST rim and a UST tire is about the most reliable rim and tire combination out there...even better than tubes and tires IMO. My experience with UST rims (Mavic CrossRoc UST wheels) running standard tires tubeless was much different though. I found it difficult to seat the tires even with a compressor and had frequent burping issues.

The biggest disadvantage of the Mavic UST rims right now IMO is lack of selection. The XM819's are too heavy for the weight conscious XC riders and too narrow for running the wider Trail/AM tires than many like to run. The EX823 have the width but are too heavy for Trail/AM. And of course they do not make a 29er UST rim which is too bad considering how many Tubeless Ready 29er tires are hitting the market.

For running standard tires tubeless, the Stans NoTube rims have a bead hook specifically designed for running these tires tubeless. There "bead socket" holds standard tires as tight as any I've seen or felt, so they are probably the best for running standard tires tubeless (or they run UST spec tires fine, as well as using tubes).
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
mtnbiker72 said:
You have less potential of a rim leak with a UST rim that has a solid inner wall (though the tape or molded rim strip on Bontrager and Stans rims are very reliable and easy to install), BUT the bead hook is specifically designed for UST spec tire beads. So they are best for UST Tubeless and Tubeless Ready tires that have UST spec beads. IME the Mavic UST rim and a UST tire is about the most reliable rim and tire combination out there...even better than tubes and tires IMO. My experience with UST rims (Mavic CrossRoc UST wheels) running standard tires tubeless was much different though. I found it difficult to seat the tires even with a compressor and had frequent burping issues.

The biggest disadvantage of the Mavic UST rims right now IMO is lack of selection. The XM819's are too heavy for the weight conscious XC riders and too narrow for running the wider Trail/AM tires than many like to run. The EX823 have the width but are too heavy for Trail/AM. And of course they do not make a 29er UST rim which is too bad considering how many Tubeless Ready 29er tires are hitting the market.

For running standard tires tubeless, the Stans NoTube rims have a bead hook specifically designed for running these tires tubeless. There "bead socket" holds standard tires as tight as any I've seen or felt, so they are probably the best for running standard tires tubeless (or they run UST spec tires fine, as well as using tubes).
Thats some great info..thank you. I have been running 2.35 Nevegals on my XM819s for two years now and granted, at times, they are hard to seat with a compressors, but they have never failed me or burped. I ride pretty hard in rocky Arizona conditions. You got me wondering if the 819 is too narrow for a 2.35 and I've been lucky....
 

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I have a set of ex823's UST .. for the bike im building , what would be the perfect size tires for the rims ? 2.1 ? 2.3 ?

and ummm i hope the 823's are not to heavy for XC/ AM riding . i weigh 170 ish ..
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
C.M.S said:
I have a set of ex823's UST .. for the bike im building , what would be the perfect size tires for the rims ? 2.1 ? 2.3 ?

and ummm i hope the 823's are not to heavy for XC/ AM riding . i weigh 170 ish ..
The 823as are definately not light rims. You can give them a beating. I would say the 823 is way overkill for XC. It's like why buy a Ferrari to only drive to the grocery store. You can do it, but there's no need......

They will certainly last in the XC/AM category.

I decided on the STAN ZTR FLOWs. They are 2mm wider than the 819 and will accomodate me converted 2.35 Kenda Nevegals perfectly.

Depending how, what and where you ride will dictate the tire size. If you're into rocky technical stuff like me, a 2.1 in the rear and a 2.35 will do nicely. 823 is a pretty stout rim. You can do some serious riding on that thing.
 

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Non UST tire on UST rims works great with a rimstrip.

One big problem I see over and over is that people make the assumption that with a non-UST tire, a UST rim is going to work better, and won't even need a sealing strip. Then they have trouble with the tire burping.:eekster:

A UST rim is designed to do ONE thing. Seal to a UST tire.

It was never designed to make an airtight seal to a standard tire!! :nono: If this was the case you would not even need UST tires. A standard tire was not designed to properly seal to ANY rim. It was designed for a tube. But it can be made to seal very well to any rim with a rimstrip such as Stan's, or a split 20" tube.

Now it is true, that some standard tires sometimes get an ok seal to a UST rim. But it is a big crap shoot, and you seriously risk a catastrophic burp that might put you on your face. I used many standard tires on Crossmax SL UST rims. First with a Stan's strip, and then with a simple 20" split tube. This ensures that the standard tire that was not meant to seal to the UST rim, does get the proper seal it needs. I never once had a tire burp using this method over several years of use.

You can do some searching and find many incidents of people suffering burps when using standard tires on UST rims with nothing else but sealant. If you want to dramatically increase your safety, use a sealing strip with that standard tire on ANY rim you set it up tubeless on.

Also, if you set up a standard tire on a UST rim using a Stan's or "ghetto" strip, do not inflate over 40psi. You are not seating a UST tire. Follow the same inflation guidelines as Stan's advises for standard tires ran tubeless with his rimstrips.
 

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NedwannaB
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Little help please

twowheelsdown2002 said:
I used many standard tires on Crossmax SL UST rims. First with a Stan's strip, and then with a simple 20" split tube. This ensures that the standard tire that was not meant to seal to the UST rim, does get the proper seal it needs. I never once had a tire burp using this method over several years of use.
Glad I searched abit and found this before posting up a new thread. I too am looking to throw a non UST tire on my XMax SL's.

Couple questions 2wheelsdown if you don't mind:

Have you had any experience with running any of the lighter WTB tires on your xmax tubless, specifically a Wolverine? And do you feel the strip or the 20" split tube is better?

I am a 135lb rider and have had the Hutchison Python Air Light's up til now with no issues. For winter I willl be running a 2.2 Wolverine in back, and a 2.2 Spec Purgatory "2Bliss" in front which I assume will be fine without using any strip.

Thanks in advance-JMac
 

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twowheelsdown2002 said:
One big problem I see over and over is that people make the assumption that with a non-UST tire, a UST rim is going to work better, and won't even need a sealing strip. Then they have trouble with the tire burping.:eekster:

A UST rim is designed to do ONE thing. Seal to a UST tire.

It was never designed to make an airtight seal to a standard tire!! :nono: If this was the case you would not even need UST tires. A standard tire was not designed to properly seal to ANY rim. It was designed for a tube. But it can be made to seal very well to any rim with a rimstrip such as Stan's, or a split 20" tube.

Now it is true, that some standard tires sometimes get an ok seal to a UST rim. But it is a big crap shoot, and you seriously risk a catastrophic burp that might put you on your face. I used many standard tires on Crossmax SL UST rims. First with a Stan's strip, and then with a simple 20" split tube. This ensures that the standard tire that was not meant to seal to the UST rim, does get the proper seal it needs. I never once had a tire burp using this method over several years of use.

You can do some searching and find many incidents of people suffering burps when using standard tires on UST rims with nothing else but sealant. If you want to dramatically increase your safety, use a sealing strip with that standard tire on ANY rim you set it up tubeless on.

Also, if you set up a standard tire on a UST rim using a Stan's or "ghetto" strip, do not inflate over 40psi. You are not seating a UST tire. Follow the same inflation guidelines as Stan's advises for standard tires ran tubeless with his rimstrips.
Great post here. One question, does what you're saying about success using non-UST tires as long as you use a rim strip apply to the Bontrager rims as well? I know Bontrager makes a rim strip for their tubeless ready rims, and I'm considering running some Race King Supersonics tubeless on it. I should be good to go if I use their strip right?
 

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JMac47 said:
Glad I searched abit and found this before posting up a new thread. I too am looking to throw a non UST tire on my XMax SL's.

Couple questions 2wheelsdown if you don't mind:

Have you had any experience with running any of the lighter WTB tires on your xmax tubless, specifically a Wolverine? And do you feel the strip or the 20" split tube is better?

I am a 135lb rider and have had the Hutchison Python Air Light's up til now with no issues. For winter I willl be running a 2.2 Wolverine in back, and a 2.2 Spec Purgatory "2Bliss" in front which I assume will be fine without using any strip.

Thanks in advance-JMac
I have ran a Weirwolf before on the XMax rims, but not a Wolverine. I used to run them a lot back in Oregon and they always sealed easy, and held air well. All WTB tires I have used have sealed well. I have not used them in Arizona, because I did tear a sidewall once in Oregon with a Weirwolf, and Arizona is brutal on sidewalls on the types of trails I like, so I have shyed away from them here.

I first used a Stan's strip, and it worked fine, but I think the 20" tube is easier. You don't have to monkey around with getting it into position just right, and it is soft enough that it creates a good seal and really gets a good grip on the bead as well.

Your Purgatory will only need some sealant.
 

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mightymouse said:
Great post here. One question, does what you're saying about success using non-UST tires as long as you use a rim strip apply to the Bontrager rims as well? I know Bontrager makes a rim strip for their tubeless ready rims, and I'm considering running some Race King Supersonics tubeless on it. I should be good to go if I use their strip right?
Honestly, I have not had any experience using the Bontrager tubeless rims.

I am not certain, but don't they have a UST bead, and the strip is used to seal off the spoke holes? I may be wrong on this.

If this is the case, then a UST or Tubeless Ready tire would be easiest, using their strip to seal the spoke holes.

If you use a Non-UST tire on that rim, you need to see what function their rim strip does. If it only seals the spoke holes, I would not mount up a standard tire with that strip. If that is the case, I would just put some strapping tape over the spoke holes and then use a split 20" tube to seal the standard tire to the rim.

Maybe someone with experience with their rim strips can chime in here about exactly what their strip does in that rim. IMO you always want something that adds a rubber sealing strip(at the bead area) for a standard tire, and I am not sure that the Bontrager strip does this.
 

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NedwannaB
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Thx for tire beta

twowheelsdown2002 said:
I have ran a Weirwolf before on the XMax rims, but not a Wolverine. I used to run them a lot back in Oregon and they always sealed easy, and held air well. All WTB tires I have used have sealed well. I have not used them in Arizona, because I did tear a sidewall once in Oregon with a Weirwolf, and Arizona is brutal on sidewalls on the types of trails I like, so I have shyed away from them here.

I first used a Stan's strip, and it worked fine, but I think the 20" tube is easier. You don't have to monkey around with getting it into position just right, and it is soft enough that it creates a good seal and really gets a good grip on the bead as well.

Your Purgatory will only need some sealant.
I'll try the 20" on the wolverine setup. Not to many rock worries for sidewall tears where I ride. And I try to avoid bad lines anyway! :D
 
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