Undulations and fun factor

roguehoe said:

...do you merely excavate deeper?

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This!

If you have the side slope, you can build bigger whoops. If you're using a mini skid steer, you can also transport the dirt (pushing it) short distances to build the grade reversals. The latter act is a great way to sustainable lose elevation: going down constantly yet using the spoils to make rollers which force any water off the trail.

Sorry for the poor quality of this pic.


D

If you don't have access to machinery, digging dips and using the material for rollers or tables is a geat way to add a little excitement to the ride. I wouldn't try it on flat land but on a side hill, as long as you outslope the dips, you should be fine.


By the way, that section of trail was built entirely with a Rogue Hoe in about 4 hours.

roguehoe said:

Is there a tip or trick to building these or do you merely excavate deeper? How high should they be?? Anyone have any pictures of ones they constructed?

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This is much easier to do when using a mini skid steer (or Sweco which I haven't had the pleasure of). I find that often I'm keeping the spoils on the trail instead of blading them off the downhill side of the slope. This helps minimize the impact of a new trail. You'll have a very hard time getting volunteers to do that when hand benching, then you need lots of wheelbarrow trips to get the same effect as a swoopy machine built trail.

You can still get that up and down flow by hand though, it typically lacks some of the "emphasis" you can add when pushing several hundred pounds of dirt in front of a machine. Find a 30%+ side slope where you can envision a trail across the contour where you're typically working up the slope or down the slope using the 10% max average grade guideline. I typically think of working down, as that's the direction to build with a skid steer because gravity is a great help. Now, reduce that 10% average downhill grade for say a 100-300 yard stretch back to 4%-5%, remember this is that average for the entire 100-300 yard section, not what you can do with a "specific grade" over a say a 50 foot section. Within each short 50 foot section you can have a 15% grade down followed by 10% up, next section might be 8% down, 6% up.

The key to making all that happen is backing the total average of the stretch off to 4%-5% to make those up/downs happen. If your average is 8% to 10%, it can be hard to figure out where to put a grade reversal somewhere without ending up with a much longer 15% down somewhere. The 15% works under the 4%-5% average grade because the individual drainages on the trail are shorter. Shorter the drainage segment, you can push a steeper slope and still keep it sustainable. Every up/down flow you can put in a trail creates a separate trail drainage, increasing the sustainablility.

Hope this makes sense without pictures. edit - I found a good pic that sorta shows this, I didn't build this but aspire to....

roguehoe said:

Do you think riding a trail that features small, rolling undulations in the trail increases the fun of the ride?

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Yes. There's a trail I ride that has what a motorcyclist might call "whoop-de-doos". It is on a more or less flat stretch of trail that winds through a forest. While they are fun on a bike as well, these are really too tall and steep for most folks to launch off under pedal power. These particular undulations also have some problems in terms of sight lines and proximity to a corner in the trail in one direction. From one direction, you really can't see beyond the second undulation, so it's not very responsible to hit them with any speed.

If I was going to build something like this, I'd do it on a stretch of trail that was pretty straight, with good sight lines in both directions, and sufficient room on either end to scrub off speed before a corner in the trail.

roguehoe said:

In the local park where our club builds some trails, we don't always have a lot of rock around and the land manager will not let us build wooden technical trail features....so we are looking for easy ways to make the ride more fun and not merely another ride thru a green tunnel. How do you increase the Fun Factor of a ride via trail design and construction?? What makes your favorite trail FUN to ride?

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I don't think you need a lot of rock. Twisty trails with turns of varying radii can be fun. Take advantage of trees and bushes to create lines that weave and emphasize bike handling and choosing a line through multiple corners. If you've got a sideslope, play with it, taking the trail up and down the slope even as you traverse it.

HarryCallahan said:

Y "whoop-de-doos". These particular undulations also have some problems in terms of sight lines and proximity

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Reminds me...I rode a trail with a ton of whoop-de-doos, the name not important. At one point, I noted a sign was installed because potential situation. Probably need to make sure the whoops are far enough apart.

In fairness to this trail system, this was an "expert" section I think.

This is going to be similar to the next trail i create. Will be heavy on berms and undulations, then through the flats we are going to create a pump track trail. When we're on a hill we can work on the side slope, strategically trying to use the existing contour of the hill to our benefit whenever possible. But when terraform on a hill will help with drainage.
When digging the pump track through the flat again the drainage is such that instead of digging down we'll be looking at using borrow pits or just bringing in more dirt to raise the tread.
i think there is alot to be learned by reading Pump Track Nation, just modifying tricks or tips for what's appropriate. Trail builds vary where you are going to have to use some more conventional practices for drainage.
Staging and planning will go a long way with the challenges that i and anyone will face with a trail like this, where you are accentuating a more mt. bike specific trail build.

HarryCallahan said:

I thought of another under-valued feature that I find fun - off-camber or out sloped turns. One of the twisty woods trails I ride used to have a couple somewhat high speed sweepers. One had to be somewhat thoughtful about speed, line, and tire grip in taking these corners, which for me added to the interest factor of a trail frequently ridden. Unfortunately, a couple years ago, someone decided to "improve" the trail by adding a berm on the downslope outer edge of the corner. Not only does this become a bog in wet weather, it dumbs down those corners in my opinion.

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i don't like the idea of a corner being used to slow a rider. Ok so now you have riders who are riding too hot, and they are not controlling the bike effectively. So you are hiking just around the corner and you are witnessing someone coming too hot off the corner, pretty much a scene that still scares the hiker? Too fast a rider, or a rider that is not in control.

The other reason is that it's a given that riders until they learn the trail will approach too hot and will skid which will create ruts which will no make this corner deserve more maintenance than it should.

Using a chicane or creating a switchback for controlling speed or be more wary when routing a trail is my vote. Whenever i see an outsloped corner i think of it as an error, not a skills builder.