Like Zak I do 3 hr. rides with the 661's, most of the time I forget I'm wearing them. Great shorts :thumbsup: I also have a pair of settes, I think their to hot.:madmax:Zak said:I've got the 661 pro bomber shorts and really like them. They have rigid plastic hip and tailbone pads, soft pads elsewhere, and a chamois. The short itself is mesh, so they're not that hot. I've done 3 hour rides with lots of climbing in them in the 90s and been overly hot. They're a little more expensive, I think I got them for $55 or $60.