Unable to demo - Patrol or Spire?

I have ridden both; lucky to live near Transition HQ. Both are amazing bikes.

The Patrol is leaning a lot more on the freeride side of things I feel, it's not an all-day climber. I am going to try it again in the near future, but first impressions are that I am not a fan of the mullet setup for steep tech climbs, feels unbalanced, going to reconfirm this in a couple weeks. Descending is a different story; it's as you would expect, rock solid and fast, the shorter wheel base is easier to jump steep BMX style doubles. Overall, I am leaning towards wishing they left it full 27.5 or the option to mullet it.

The Spire completely blew my mind! I rode the carbon size large Gx build, and as a diehard 27.5 alloy guy the Spire has me contemplating my current rig. (Custom built Knolly Warden LT) I was set on what the Spire looks like on paper, a long wheel based, super slack shuttle rig that can get you to the top eventually. NOT the case at all, having ridden the Scout Carbon 140 the week before. The Spire out climbed it (for me anyway) set a PR on the ups and downs that day, tons of traction, playful and pretty easy to throw around and scary fast coming down. You do have to pay attention to your pedals climbing and 165mm cranks are a must for both bikes as the bottom brackets are nice and low. The Spire jumps great, this is where you will also really notice the long wheel base on steep BMX style dirt jumps and steep tight switch backs, but it's a very balanced bike and easy to manipulate around if that makes sense? Outside of that Transition nailed it with the Spire, it doesn't feel like you are riding a 29er; feels like you're on a lightweight 27.5 dh bike, it's crazy how well they executed this.

I don't know if the alloy Spire rides the same given the added weight. If I had to choose right now? I would get the Spire carbon as it excels on ups and downs, like I said above I am going to demo the Patrol again to confirm what I felt on the climbs before I rule it out.

Hopefully that helps a little, I'm not the average rider I pedal around 34-37 pound 27.5 enduro/freeride bikes, 188cm tall and weigh 100kg, so heavy slacked out bikes are kind of my normal setup.

Yuki San said:

I have ridden both; lucky to live near Transition HQ. Both are amazing bikes.

The Patrol is leaning a lot more on the freeride side of things I feel, it's not an all-day climber. I am going to try it again in the near future, but first impressions are that I am not a fan of the mullet setup for steep tech climbs, feels unbalanced, going to reconfirm this in a couple weeks. Descending is a different story; it's as you would expect, rock solid and fast, the shorter wheel base is easier to jump steep BMX style doubles. Overall, I am leaning towards wishing they left it full 27.5 or the option to mullet it.

The Spire completely blew my mind! I rode the carbon size large Gx build, and as a diehard 27.5 alloy guy the Spire has me contemplating my current rig. (Custom built Knolly Warden LT) I was set on what the Spire looks like on paper, a long wheel based, super slack shuttle rig that can get you to the top eventually. NOT the case at all, having ridden the Scout Carbon 140 the week before. The Spire out climbed it (for me anyway) set a PR on the ups and downs that day, tons of traction, playful and pretty easy to throw around and scary fast coming down. You do have to pay attention to your pedals climbing and 165mm cranks are a must for both bikes as the bottom brackets are nice and low. The Spire jumps great, this is where you will also really notice the long wheel base on steep BMX style dirt jumps and steep tight switch backs, but it's a very balanced bike and easy to manipulate around if that makes sense? Outside of that Transition nailed it with the Spire, it doesn't feel like you are riding a 29er; feels like you're on a lightweight 27.5 dh bike, it's crazy how well they executed this.

I don't know if the alloy Spire rides the same given the added weight. If I had to choose right now? I would get the Spire carbon as it excels on ups and downs, like I said above I am going to demo the Patrol again to confirm what I felt on the climbs before I rule it out.

Hopefully that helps a little, I'm not the average rider I pedal around 34-37 pound 27.5 enduro/freeride bikes, 188cm tall and weigh 100kg, so heavy slacked out bikes are kind of my normal setup.

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agreed with the above as the spire is unreal. i ride with a crew that consists of about 5-6 transtions owners that have been riding different models for years. The spire is big though and if your riding isnt fast and wide open you may actually want a sentinel. i live in the PNW so we ride steep, fast, roots rocks etc and the spire is perfect but just came back from sedona and although the spire was great if i lived there would probably have a sentinel as the trails are very tight and there may be an advantage with the smaller bike. Couple guys i ride with got patrols mullets and sold them and went to sentinal, spire is a big sentinel but all around depending on what your riding is like, sentinel may be a great choice and right now they have aluminum in stock. i got carbon but was one aluminum last 2 bikes and enjoyes being able to drop the bike and not worry about cracks!! Lastly it climbs well but that is so relatvie if you are coming from an XC bike it may not feel great but i watched my buddy ratchet an xxl aluminum spire up all of the climbs on hi line in sedona without putting a foot down so it is capable all around and that is tight, rocky, steep, ratchey climbing.

ocnLogan said:

Did you get a chance to ride, or even sit on the XL spire? And do you have any time on the sentinel?

Im 185cm barefoot, so with shoes on I’m 187cm or so tall. And looking at their sizing charts I’m kind of between the L and XL. So was curious about if you’d had a chance on both.

Also, every single review of the spire I’ve seen (professional, and here on the forums), people talk about how it “should” feel lazy, and bored on flat stuff since it “should” be a shuttle or lift only bike. Yet they all say it’s surprisingly more trail bike ish in its mannerisms.

I’m also in the PNW, and ride a 36-37lb Kona at the moment. So yeah, not too concerned about weight. Just more worried if the spire is “too much” for the local riding areas (not just Galbraith/raging river/tiger), or if the sentinel (or other less aggressive bike like the Privateer 161) would be a better all round bike out here.

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I did not try the XL Spire as I feel it would just be too big for me. Transition's SBG is designed around a 40mm stem length, this would just make too long of reach for me at a total reach around 550mm. The wheelbase makes a big jump going up to the XL size as well, it jumps from a 1287 (large) to 1322mm. I feel like the bike industry has nailed sizing correctly and bikes are actually getting a tad on the long side for slow mortals like myself, a couple years ago I was riding XL bikes all the time, I find myself sizing back down to size large bikes now.

I don't have any seat time on the Sentinel unfortunately.

I did get to take the Patrol out for a second spin right before the big rains hit. The front wheel does seem to wander a bit more on the rooty tech climbs, not 100% sure why??? wheelbase, chainstay length, gearing???? I did notice I needed to shift weight around and be more active on the climbs, logging roads are great, just sit and pedal, it pedals really well and gets up to speed pretty quick too, if I got one, I would probably put a 30t gear on instead of a 32 I know that would help me on the tech climbs. The Patrol is a lot of fun to jump and throw around, it hides its heft well. I'm glad I gave it a second try, good chance ill end up going with the Patrol.

Outright speed and small bump comfort goes to the Spire hands down though.

You can short stroke the shock on the Spire and drop the rear travel down to 160 if that helps, if you go with the 2020 Fox float x2 you just change the internal spacer to adjust the travel, takes about 5-10 minutes. It's even quicker on the Dhx2 coil.

Yuki San said:

I did not try the XL Spire as I feel it would just be too big for me. Transition's SBG is designed around a 40mm stem length, this would just make too long of reach for me at a total reach around 550mm. The wheelbase makes a big jump going up to the XL size as well, it jumps from a 1287 (large) to 1322mm. I feel like the bike industry has nailed sizing correctly and bikes are actually getting a tad on the long side for slow mortals like myself, a couple years ago I was riding XL bikes all the time, I find myself sizing back down to size large bikes now.

I don't have any seat time on the Sentinel unfortunately.

I did get to take the Patrol out for a second spin right before the big rains hit. The front wheel does seem to wander a bit more on the rooty tech climbs, not 100% sure why??? wheelbase, chainstay length, gearing???? I did notice I needed to shift weight around and be more active on the climbs, logging roads are great, just sit and pedal, it pedals really well and gets up to speed pretty quick too, if I got one, I would probably put a 30t gear on instead of a 32 I know that would help me on the tech climbs. The Patrol is a lot of fun to jump and throw around, it hides its heft well. I'm glad I gave it a second try, good chance ill end up going with the Patrol.

Outright speed and small bump comfort goes to the Spire hands down though.

You can short stroke the shock on the Spire and drop the rear travel down to 160 if that helps, if you go with the 2020 Fox float x2 you just change the internal spacer to adjust the travel, takes about 5-10 minutes. It's even quicker on the Dhx2 coil.

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Thanks for the feedback.

Not sure about the wandering on the Patrol. My first thought was the shorter chainstays, but in size L, the Spire actually has a worse FC/RC ratio (barely... its 1.885 vs 1.877), which should mean that the Spires should have ever so slightly less weight on the front wheel. And then I thought STA... but they have the exact same STA. So yeah, not sure. Perhaps its just the rear wheel size too though.

I really do appreciate your thoughts on the Spire though. I just find it really interesting how a bike with a 63 degree HTA, and huge wheelbase/chainstays/travel, can be so universally referred to as so well balanced and people talk about how it rides like it has much less travel (in a good sense). Yet other bikes that on paper seem to have less aggressive geo, get called "demanding" (again, I'm thinking the Privateer 161, with its 64 degree HTA, and nearly identical reach/chainstay/wheelbase in size L).

As a giant nerd, who's been unable to find many demos lately, I've been trying out the RAD measurement thing in an attempt to see if I fit bikes I haven't been on yet. According to my actual measured RAD (distance from my hands to my feet), I fit both the L, and XL Spire, just with different rise bars (on the same 40mm stem). On the the Large I'd need a 38mm riser bar, and a 15mm of stem spacers, while on the XL I'd just a 20mm rise bar and the stem slammed.

Sounds like I just need to find a time to head up and do a Demo sometime .

So picked up my Patrol GX yesterday. Will add a few thoughts in case it helps anyone.

Only had about two hours, and with a new bike and all the faffing that comes with it that meant about an hour's worth of riding. I've had a cold all week plus a toddler related bad sleep so I really struggled with fatigue so I took it easy.

Can't report back on the climbs as I felt tired and legs were hurting from the get go but I can confirm it's a very comfortable sitting position. I kept checking that I didn't have the lock out switch on as it just felt so solid. Genuinely I felt like I was on a hardtail at times when I pedalled hard, but not in a bad way - it didn't feel harsh.

I have short legs so stand over height and seat tube length c-t do matter to me - and the patrol is perfect for me. The 180mm dropper means I can slam the seat down and out of the way. I did my two favourite trails, one 3 times and the other twice.

My first trail is only about 40~s long and has some nice berms, a couple of small table-top/kicker jumps and two small drops and requires almost no peddalling. I wasn't pushing it as to get used to the bike, but I instantly noticed two things:
1. It's true what everyone says about mullets and corners. The first berm I realised that it wanted to go faster than I was going, so I committed to the second and it truly railed it and picked up speed on the way round like I've not known. I am sure this is a confidence thing, but it was so noticable how good it felt
2. It had been raining so it was pretty slippery. I went over some roots that led into a turn. I got that heart in mouth feeling where I felt the back wheel beginning to wash out... But it didn't. It just sat itself back up. It was a truly strange feeling as it was a feeling I recognise and it has only ever resulted in my crashing. On the second run the exact same thing happened. So this is a strange thing to get used to, but as I learn to trust the bike I imagine that's where the party-out-back fun is.

My Strava PB on this trail is 44s, on my very first run on the Patrol where I deliberately didn't aim for speed I did it in 42s. It's safe to say that there's a lot more room for improvement, yet I am already almost 5% faster.

The second trail is longer and requires pedalling in a few places. Again I didn't take it at full speed and I was definitely lagging when I was required to pedal. Same story, last PB was 2:41 and I shaved 5s on this to 2:36. So not as much of an increase but that's no doubt due to me not having the legs to pedal. I am certain the time was made up in those berms. There's probably 5 or 6 on this track and this is where I noticed myself shooting out of the back of them like I've not felt before.

A few other thoughts:

• I didn't go for the jumps like I might have normally however the one I did go for I really took off with minimal effort. I think that's going to be fun.
• The Zeb is almighty. On one small natural double I landed front wheel into the landing - on an upward slope - and it just ate it up and it felt like I barely lost speed.
• I've only ever ridden shimano and came from deore, the GX is loud when you shift under load and isn't quite as smooth. However when shifting not under load actually feels much better and the shifter has a better feel to it.
• The RSCs come with metallic pads which is a massive bonus. They took quite a while to bed in but when they're up to speed the modulation is wonderful.
• When I came into some of the jumps I felt that I couldn't preload as much as I would like but the LSC is all the way off. This might just be that my old Occam was far too bouncy and I'm not used to something with more support.
• It really ate up roots and chunk, I didn't notice the rear wheel hanging up on anything more so than my old 29er.