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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I couldn't find the search function (probably didn't try hard enough), so I'm reposting for all you Turner fanatics.

I'm looking for some compatibility charts for replacing my stock turner rockers. The bike in question is a 2008 Turner Flux in x-small. I am looking to increase the rear travel, or increase the leverage ratio. Maybe try some 5spot rockers, but not sure where to get them, or if they're compatible.

The bike is ridden by a 90lbs person, and it's really difficult to find longer travel trail bikes in the XS or XXS sizes.

Thanks for any input!
 

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The Flux was one bike that rarely (ever?) got modded in the normal Frankenturner way. Based on the fact that you can put Push 5-Spot rockers on a Sultan, and the fact that the Sultan and Flux share the same rockers, you should be able to run Push rockers on a Flux. The travel did not increase when using the Push rockers on the Sultan so also may not on a Flux, but a lot of folks liked the suspension characteristics better.

Really, since the Flux uses a 1.5" stroke shock, and has a 2.667 average leverage ratio, you probably are not going to see a travel bump no matter which rockers you run. Even the 5.5" Spot rockers only get you a 2.75 average leverage ratio which would get you a theoretical 4.125" travel on the Flux. Hardly worth the bother and potential compatibility issues.

Not that you want to buy a new frame, but the dw link bikes in small sizes have impressive standover. Barny's new size small 5-Spot has way more clearance than her old Spot, and having the cabling run under the top tube helps a lot. They come in XS too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the response! I should have specified that I tend to buy my bikes/frames used. Can't really afford $2k on a frame alone. The XS turner spot has a TT of 21.5", which is just a bit too much for my girlfriend. The flux is 21.2" and run with an 80mm stem, straight post, and narrow 520mm bars. My lady is 5' tall, 29" inseam, and a short reach. Standover isn't really a huge issue, but TT length is critical.

Great point on the stroke length. I don't know why I thought the stroke was 2".

Last point on the DW link. I heard they were rock solid under pedaling forces, which make me think that it doesn't have great small bump compliance (might be a totally wrong assumption). I'm mainly trying to get the rear to be more responsive. Even run at 50psi and 33% sag, the rear suspension hardly moves except on bigger hits. I figure my options are to get it custom valved at PUSH, get longer rockers, or just get a different bike.

- Steve
 

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You could try a pair of older 5.3 or 5.1 Spot rockers to add a little leverage to the shock - I run the 5.3s on my Sultan and like the feel better than the standard (same as Flux) rockers. You can find a pair way cheaper than the 5.5s.

You could also try swapping the air sleeve to the HV model. The LV can runs lower pressures initially but has a faster ramp up as you get into the travel - the HV sleeve at lower pressures might make the stroke feel more compliant.
 

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cutthroat said:
You could try a pair of older 5.3 or 5.1 Spot rockers to add a little leverage to the shock...
The 5.1 and 5.3 rockers have a lower average leverage ratio than the stock Flux rockers, not higher. You would theoretically lose travel. That's not to say the results would not be pleasant, but it is a little hard to predict. It seems like putting Spot rockers on Sultans and Fluxes does not produce the travel bump that it does on the Spot, e.g. the Push rockers, even if the ride quality may improve.

cutthroat said:
You could also try swapping the air sleeve to the HV model. The LV can runs lower pressures initially but has a faster ramp up as you get into the travel - the HV sleeve at lower pressures might make the stroke feel more compliant.
This is an excellent suggestion and should be done for sure if she is on a low volume air sleeve.
 

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tscheezy said:
The 5.1 and 5.3 rockers have a lower average leverage ratio than the stock Flux rockers, not higher. You would theoretically lose travel. That's not to say the results would not be pleasant, but it is a little hard to predict. It seems like putting Spot rockers on Sultans and Fluxes does not produce the travel bump that it does on the Spot, e.g. the Push rockers, even if the ride quality may improve.
??? really - The 5.3s were significantly longer off the back of the set tube pivot than the Flux rockers, but not as long as the 5.5s so I assumed you would get a little more leverage on the shock (maybe like 2.75 vs 2.66 with the stock rockers) Maybe I have my terminology wrong? I found with the 5.5s that my rear tire would hit the seat tube with a Rampage when fully compressed. That would not happen with the Flux rockers, and the 5.3s came close but stayed off, so I think the Spot rockers did bump the travel a little bit.
 

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cutthroat said:
??? really - The 5.3s were significantly longer off the back of the set tube pivot than the Flux rockers, but not as long as the 5.5s so I assumed you would get a little more leverage on the shock (maybe like 2.75 vs 2.66 with the stock rockers) Maybe I have my terminology wrong? I found with the 5.5s that my rear tire would hit the seat tube with a Rampage when fully compressed. That would not happen with the Flux rockers, and the 5.3s came close but stayed off, so I think the Spot rockers did bump the travel a little bit.
You are correct, they are longer off the back, but they are also longer off the front. It's the ratio of front to back that gives the rocker it's leverage, not just the back.

So in a very general way, the rockers stack up like this:

5.1 rockers = 2.55 ratio
5.3 rockers = 2.65
Flux rockers = 2.67
5.5 rockers = 2.75

What the rocker's actual effect on a bike other than the one it was designed for would be needs to be experienced, measured, or modeled as in your example. The geometry of the rockers also plays a huge part in where in the rear wheel's path the linkage starts and stops, and so whether or not it hits the seat tube, gives you a crazy BB height, etc.
 

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Got it. So why would the 5.3s make the suspension feel plusher on the initial 1/2 of the travel? At least it feels that way to me - it's either 1) my imagination, or 2) the average LR doesn't describe where in the stroke the leverage is occurring. Regrettably or thankfully depending on your viewpoint, the DW Link has killed these frankentopics.
 

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I'm guessing that the rate at any given point in the travel is quite different than the stock rockers and maybe it starts high (so it feels plush). Two bikes can have totally different rate curves but the same average leverage ratio. The other arms of the linkage play a role too, of course.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Great information! I'm now understanding more about the rockers. 5.3 rockers may have similar leverage ratios to the flux rockers, but has more leverage on the shock. I.e. - longer rockers forward and behind the pivot point apply greater force on the shock.

I guess I should change the shock to the high volume sleeve and/or upgrade to 5.3 rockers.

Anyone have any 5.3 rockers for sale?

tscheezy said:
You are correct, they are longer off the back, but they are also longer off the front. It's the ratio of front to back that gives the rocker it's leverage, not just the back.

So in a very general way, the rockers stack up like this:

5.1 rockers = 2.55 ratio
5.3 rockers = 2.65
Flux rockers = 2.67
5.5 rockers = 2.75

What the rocker's actual effect on a bike other than the one it was designed for would be needs to be experienced, measured, or modeled as in your example. The geometry of the rockers also plays a huge part in where in the rear wheel's path the linkage starts and stops, and so whether or not it hits the seat tube, gives you a crazy BB height, etc.
 

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roaringpanda said:
5.3 rockers may have similar leverage ratios to the flux rockers, but has more leverage on the shock. I.e. - longer rockers forward and behind the pivot point apply greater force on the shock.
No, the leverage ratio number IS the amount of force (leverage) the rockers exert on the shock.

A Spot gets 5.3 inches of travel from essentially the SAME rockers (they look different but have the same leverage ratio) as the Flux, which only gets 4 inches of travel, because the Spot has a 2 inch stroke shock and the Flux has a 1.5 inch stroke shock. Basically the 5.3 and Flux rockers are the same from an average force/leverage/ratio etc point of view. Well, they are different in meaningful ways, but not in the way you are thinking about or interested in. Just look at the leverage ratio, that is of primary interest here. The other aspects of swapping rockers (e.g., "it makes the initial stroke plusher" or "it turned me into a newt") are hard to predict.

Spot: (2" stroke shock) x (2.65 ratio Spot rockers) = 5.3" travel
Flux: (1.5" stroke shock) x (2.67 ratio Flux rockers) = 4" travel
Flux/Spot hybrid: (1.5" stroke shock) x (2.65 ratio Spot rockers) = ~3.98" travel

And no, you cannot simply put a longer stroke shock on the Flux to bump travel. There are no stock shocks that come in a size to accomplish what you want. The next bigger shock is a full inch longer overall, and your geometry would be totally screwed hugely.
 
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