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Sorry to bum you out TTTurner, but because of the way trails have been built the last several years, i.e., the ALine influence, there will be no more 'reasonably light' alloy frames ever again. IMO. Back in the old days I was always sweating the weights of the 02, Nitrous, Flux, 5 Spot, Burner and later DHR. The early DHRs, Highline and RFX were always built to the hilt. Except for the early Highline swing arms... but the revised version is still out there hucking strong! I know you have noticed bike weights are up, especially alloy. I bet enduro class are +/- 8lbs, as they need the material to handle slap slap slap all the way down the trail. Then back up and slap slap slap again and again and again. That is mountain biking today for those that can access flow trails, much different than when I was designing the alloy mtbs. Add in much stiffer forks and way slacker HA for a massive increase in leverage creating a whole new stress, so more material to eliminate warranties.

DT
Dave,

Trail bike weights are +/- 8lbs, never mind enduro bikes. I respect the fact that you’ve moved on, and understand that you are a small company that was the victim of fickle bike industry standards and high-tech marketing, but there is still a niche for you that’s growing. Its now acceptable for 130-140mm trail bikes to weigh 34lbs, I think that you can knock it out of the park with an aluminum Burner. These newer guys out there are just using straight gauge tubes and thicker material with Horst Link bikes, path of least resistance, laziness. You must have some old designs in the can to dust off, even a 30-31lb. DW trail with modern geometry must be doable, no? You know how to properly design bikes, it would be a breath of fresh air in a sea of cookie-cutter, poorly designed, HL bikes. You have the cred, respect, and brand name. Isn’t there a domestic welder that you can do this with as a small batch, proof of concept? I think a limited run of something like this would sell out quick. I realize I’m over-simplifying, but there must be a pathway to do it, no?
 

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Dave,

Trail bike weights are +/- 8lbs, never mind enduro bikes. I respect the fact that you’ve moved on, and understand that you are a small company that was the victim of fickle bike industry standards and high-tech marketing, but there is still a niche for you that’s growing. Its now acceptable for 130-140mm trail bikes to weigh 34lbs, I think that you can knock it out of the park with an aluminum Burner. These newer guys out there are just using straight gauge tubes and thicker material with Horst Link bikes, path of least resistance, laziness. You must have some old designs in the can to dust off, even a 30-31lb. DW trail with modern geometry must be doable, no? You know how to properly design bikes, it would be a breath of fresh air in a sea of cookie-cutter, poorly designed, HL bikes. You have the cred, respect, and brand name. Isn’t there a domestic welder that you can do this with as a small batch, proof of concept? I think a limited run of something like this would sell out quick. I realize I’m over-simplifying, but there must be a pathway to do it, no?
If an updated aluminum Sultan, welded in the US or Taiwan, came out, I would be first in line to buy it. But, alas, it ain’t coming.


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If an updated aluminum Sultan, welded in the US or Taiwan, came out, I would be first in line to buy it. But, alas, it ain’t coming.


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Nawww, it should be the Burner, thats where it all started, that should be what he returns with (if he ever does). Something in 29" with 130-140mm travel, a 465-470mm reach in large, not ridiculously short stays, a 65.5-66 degree head angle, 140 or 150mm fork, in aluminum, raw, like in the olden days. Its not a trail bike, its not enduro, its not xc, its just a mountain bike. This MTB game is fickle, but are things settling down enough these days with geometry and standards to make it worth any ones while to get into this game? Has Cocalis at Pivot so completely ripped of the Turner style that its too late? Who knows, but it looks like things have run their course, or at least paused for a while, and now suspension innovation from the Foxes and Srams of the world looks to be the next big thing.
 

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I would definitely have considered buying an Al Turner with updated geo for my next bike. From 1998 to 2012, I never owned a frame for more than 3 years (I averaged more like 2). Been on my 5-spot for almost 8 years now. Similar travel 27.5 or 29er with updated geo? It would likely be my next bike.

But I guess someone who buys a bike or frame once every 8-10 years is not going to keep a place in biz.
 

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Whenever I get a chance to think about a new suspension bike, I think 'down country'. 120 rear, 130 front, 29r. Lonng TT, Short ST, long Reach, short HT, steepish SA, slackish HA, BB where it has always been. That is the only bike that interests me. Sadly, nothing on paper yet, too busy trying to keep up with Nitrous and Cyclosys production, parts hunting and screwing around on cycling news sites..
 

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Now you're talking, I'd love to see a Transition Spur style Turner DW bike! Built to go fast but not so flimsy it can't have fun at the same time...
 

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Whenever I get a chance to think about a new suspension bike, I think 'down country'. 120 rear, 130 front, 29r. Lonng TT, Short ST, long Reach, short HT, steepish SA, slackish HA, BB where it has always been.
Sounds great. In Nirvana it would have a vertical shock/open front triangle like the Czar, coil shock compatibility and fit a 2.6-2.8 tire with Boost.

Keep thinking, man. Get that S back in TSB when it's right. I'm sure a bunch of us will be ready when you are.
 

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In Nirvana it would have a vertical shock/open front triangle like the Czar
So after my previous post I was making lunch and thinking about a Turner 120mm DW trail bike when my brain suddenly thought "hey, isn't that basically the Ripley?", followed by "nah, it needs to have a vertically mounted shock instead of that ugly Ibis across-the-front-triangle set up".

Well, I know the algorithms are getting pretty good at reading my mind and pitching the right kind of ads to me, but man, to design an entire new bike and release it just after I thought of it, wow...
 

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Whenever I get a chance to think about a new suspension bike, I think 'down country'. 120 rear, 130 front, 29r. Lonng TT, Short ST, long Reach, short HT, steepish SA, slackish HA, BB where it has always been. That is the only bike that interests me. Sadly, nothing on paper yet, too busy trying to keep up with Nitrous and Cyclosys production, parts hunting and screwing around on cycling news sites..
Since building a new bike is pretty much impossible these days, I’m going to do a half-arsed attempt at that with my Sultan by replacing the headset with the new Wolf Tooth GeoShift headset to try and slack out the head tube, and drop the fork travel down to 130mm. Still not totally ”modern” geometry, but it’s a start.
 

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So after my previous post I was making lunch and thinking about a Turner 120mm DW trail bike when my brain suddenly thought "hey, isn't that basically the Ripley?", followed by "nah, it needs to have a vertically mounted shock instead of that ugly Ibis across-the-front-triangle set up".

Well, I know the algorithms are getting pretty good at reading my mind and pitching the right kind of ads to me, but man, to design an entire new bike and release it just after I thought of it, wow...
It may look better than the Ripley, but I don't know if it will ride better. I rode a Switchblade and Ripmo back to back, and there was pretty much no question that the Ripmo rode better, as ugly as it may be.
 

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So after my previous post I was making lunch and thinking about a Turner 120mm DW trail bike when my brain suddenly thought "hey, isn't that basically the Ripley?", followed by "nah, it needs to have a vertically mounted shock instead of that ugly Ibis across-the-front-triangle set up".

Well, I know the algorithms are getting pretty good at reading my mind and pitching the right kind of ads to me, but man, to design an entire new bike and release it just after I thought of it, wow...
So just to qualify things a little more, after a lot of demoing I ended up with a Ripmo v2. The Switchblade is a great bike though, and it was really close in that it looks just like the RFX, and if it came in lack the wife would have never known. The Switchblade is a slightly more efficient and lighter climber, it’s a little more responsive. The Ripmo on the other hand while not as immediate has more traction, you can get up just about anything if you have the gas. Descending the Ripmo is a burlier bike, it just flies. The faster you go, the better it feels. If I were a betting man, I would bet that the next generation of the Switchblade will come with geometry close to the v2 Ripmo.

I have friends that are in love with their Ripleys. Some ride with them a little over-forked. I’ve never ridden one, but they don’t seem to be held back in any way, even on the jumps and drops.
 

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I have friends that are in love with their Ripleys. Some ride with them a little over-forked. I’ve never ridden one, but they don’t seem to be held back in any way, even on the jumps and drops.
I've had both the V1 and V2 Ripley. Over-forked at whopping 140 and those two versions were way over-gunned on my trails. Anything technical I grabbed my RFX. I now have an Evil Offering which is a better compromise and more fun to ride than any of those bikes but still reach for the RFX when things get steep.

I tried a Ripmo and while it climbs well it wasn't all that great a descender, at least compared to the Offering or the RFX. Overall, the Offering is to date the most fun bike I've been on for the majority of trails I ride.
 
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