Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner

1 - 20 of 71 Posts

·
Bicyclochondriac.
Joined
·
14,451 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I was psyched to see the site for Tuner Bikes was back. But very surprised by what I saw: No FS bikes. Only three bike models: HT, Gravel, and CX.

I would love to know what his reasons were. Seems worthy of an interview piece.

The good news is that he is still supporting previous models. Even has torque specs on the site.
 

·
Rippin da fAt
Joined
·
8,267 Posts
Guess the plastic scene fizzled out...
Dave has changed the lineup numerous times since the beginning of Turner and Betty Burner.

Hmmm, now I'll hafta call Dave and see about a custom... Wouldn't be the first one!
 

·
Self Appointed Judge&Jury
Joined
·
36,753 Posts
Dave’s a great guy. Hope it all works out no matter what avenue he takes the company.
 

·
Rippin da fAt
Joined
·
8,267 Posts
DJ,
I think it will go well, regardless. What is still to come remains to be seen, tho' since there is a very deep suspension heritage. The plastic age was interesting however, their U. S. made aluminum frames were the founding for Mr. Turner.
The "Full Time Function" decals we modified to read "Full TIme Fun"... Stupid mountain bikers, anyway! Pfft! If I were to order up a frame, I'd check in with a friend to get the decals made and they would be on the seat stays in honor of good times.

A great history behind Turner Suspension Bicycles. The early sales brochure was very well designed and the artwork on the cover... "Betty Burner says, turn up the heat!" I still have a few copies of that, along with a few frame decal sets. The Full Time Fun decals were used up ages ago. The rides we had when Turner was in Eagle... Man, the great memories of those days, raising hell on two wheels was the cat's meow!

I really cannot imagine the squisher being left out for long...

While my '98 Stinger is old, I have not run out of enjoyment from riding a sub 20# McPhereson Strut suspension. There are a couple others in the collective that still see dirt time. Newest is a '06 Sixpack.
 

·
Bicyclochondriac.
Joined
·
14,451 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I like that when you call, you may well get Dave on the phone. I also like that he has clear opinions and is not shy of stating them. I am wondering if he was not crazy about trends in the FS market, and did not want to have to choose between making bikes that he was psyched about or ones that would sell? I don't know, but I have to think that FS bikes are a hard market right now. If you don't redesign with more long, low, and slack every two years, you are kind of written off.

I certainly wish him the best of luck with this new direction.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,065 Posts
I was psyched to see the site for Tuner Bikes was back. But very surprised by what I saw: No FS bikes. Only three bike models: HT, Gravel, and CX.

I would love to know what his reasons were. Seems worthy of an interview piece.

The good news is that he is still supporting previous models. Even has torque specs on the site.
DJ,


I really cannot imagine the squisher being left out for long...

How long has it already been?
 

·
Rippin da fAt
Joined
·
8,267 Posts
I like that when you call, you may well get Dave on the phone. I also like that he has clear opinions and is not shy of stating them. I am wondering if he was not crazy about trends in the FS market, and did not want to have to choose between making bikes that he was psyched about or ones that would sell? I don't know, but I have to think that FS bikes are a hard market right now. If you don't redesign with more long, low, and slack every two years, you are kind of written off.

I certainly wish him the best of luck with this new direction.
The angle change every 15 minutes holds merit. Hell, I'd burn out on that too! Wait til we're stuck with 95.5° STA's and 45° HTA's...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,680 Posts
I am wondering if he was not crazy about trends in the FS market, and did not want to have to choose between making bikes that he was psyched about or ones that would sell? I don't know, but I have to think that FS bikes are a hard market right now. If you don't redesign with more long, low, and slack every two years, you are kind of written off.
I think there was definitely an element of that, certainly the number of prototype RFX's that existed but never made production because of changing standards would have even the hardiest soul feeling jaded. But also it seemed like he got consumed with "passion projects" like the Cyclosis and King Khan (FS fattie) and forgot or missed the boat on the most popular market segment; 29er trail bikes. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but perhaps he should have stuck with the overseas alloy manufacturing he was using for most recent Burners (the v3.1 was a damn cool looking bike) and made a 29er version with that sweet DW link and modern-but-not-too-modern geometry. People loved the Sultan, and I reckon a modern version of would have been pretty cool too.

I'm stoked he's still in the industry and making the sort of bikes he wants to ride. The Nitrous would be a perfect second (or third?) bike for me to upgrade the Kona Explosif I use as a commuter, gravel bike and "light trail" (downcountry?!) bike. At least if my budget allowed!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,375 Posts
I'm really curious why these small companies are moving to ti. Vassago did the same thing. Did the price of Taiwan ti come down or something?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
I'm really curious why these small companies are moving to ti. Vassago did the same thing. Did the price of Taiwan ti come down or something?
If I had to hazard a guess I would say ti commands a premium over steel and the market for boutique aluminum is extremely small to non-existent. If someone is going to pay big bucks for a frame it comes down to carbon or ti with the occasional retro-geek willing to go for steel. The economics of a small company doing carbon do not work out. It is not just the cost of molds. It is the ongoing QC, which really requires a person in China, and the frequent design refreshes. With few frames to amortize the costs, a small company is basically screwed. You need to ramp up to medium size or not play at all in that arena. So you are left with ti or steel, and you can make better margins with ti.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,673 Posts
I'm really curious why these small companies are moving to ti. Vassago did the same thing. Did the price of Taiwan ti come down or something?
Because a mold for a carbon frame is $50k? So 4 sizes (S, M. L, XL) equates to $200k which is quite the investment for a small boutique manufacturer. my numbers may be off but you get the point. That's not to mention the prototypes. It's much easier to mock something up in ti or aluminum. And for a rigid gravel bike ti makes a lot of sense.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,375 Posts
For the bikes Turner is currently putting out, steel is just as adequate as ti. I understand if you start getting into full suspension where weight become a factor, and building something out of ti will produce a more comparable weighted frame to carbon.

Maybe I am biased. I've owned a lot of steel hardtails and when they are designed and built well out of steel, the small benefits of ti just don't seem to match the extra cost. I'd take a nice steel frame over a generic, copycat ti frame any day.

Just my opinion and I obliviously dont know the direction Turner is planning on going in the future. Maybe they plan to jump back into full suspensions and got a contract with a ti builder knowing thats the material they wanted to use. It would be pretty awesome to see an updated Czar or shorter travel full suspension built out of ti.
 

·
West Chester, PA
Joined
·
4,930 Posts
I'm really curious why these small companies are moving to ti. Vassago did the same thing. Did the price of Taiwan ti come down or something?
It's never been that high. There are 2 excellent manufacturers that I know of. Price really just depends on the brand name. Bikes direct has been selling ti frames made by Ora (great quality) for under 1k for years. Ritchey had frames made by the same company and charged twice as much, because they could.
 

·
Self Appointed Judge&Jury
Joined
·
36,753 Posts
Click on this thread in the General Discussion forum and bam you end in the Turner forum. This place is like the Twilight Zone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
738 Posts
My 2014 aluminum frame Turner Flux is still the best bike I've ever had.
I just sold my 2014 Turner Burner a few months ago. It is an amazing bike and I would’ve kept it if I had the time and space to justify it. Instead, I decided to sell it to someone getting back into mountain biking; he rides it a ton and loves it. Still, I miss that redhead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Elitest thrill junkie
Joined
·
35,021 Posts
If done correctly, Ti seems ok, but it's incredibly hard to weld and ensure no weld contamination by air (requires inert gas shielding). Not that it can't be done, but I'm not sure what the benefit is over steel or aluminum.

Still riding my CF RFX hard though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,673 Posts
If done correctly, Ti seems ok, but it's incredibly hard to weld and ensure no weld contamination by air (requires inert gas shielding). Not that it can't be done, but I'm not sure what the benefit is over steel or aluminum.

Still riding my CF RFX hard though.
The benefits are lighter than steel and less stiff than aluminum. Alum is better for full squish. If my old Moots was any indication ti bikes ride pretty dang nice. And the welds are art.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
385 Posts
The benefits are lighter than steel and less stiff than aluminum. Alum is better for full squish. If my old Moots was any indication ti bikes ride pretty dang nice. And the welds are art.
Longer service life, & better corrosion resistance too. I pesonally have a suspicion that the alleged ride quality benefits can only be found in road/gravel bikes, where tyres are super skinny & pressured up rock hard. Full suspension damps out pretty much everything, & 2" plus wide tyres at relatively low pressures do the same for hard tails. Aliminium frame design & construction has also gotten monumentally better in the last few years too.
 
1 - 20 of 71 Posts
Top