[29erchico]

Just got this reply to my questions about the upcoming Turner 29er:

The 29er will be an 07 model probably coming out late 06. It will be based around the Flux design. Look for info on our website in the future.
Thank you

Jarett Dierken
Sales Manager

Went to the Turner website and the Flux is a 4" travel bike. Looks like the 4" travel section of the 29er market will be a bit crowded by then. It should be a very well sorted out ride judging from what I hear from Turner owners out there.

29erchico

 

[Cloxxki]

Next moneymaker in the 29" market will be a 6" bike for sure. Quickly growing FS demand, no offerings bigger than 5".

 

[MtotheF]

you sure about that?

the 6" thing is going gangbuster with small wheels right now, but they still have some serious compromises when it comes to all-round duty. great for going really fast down stuff, but generally they get to be a handful in tight and slow going, mostly because they have very dynamic geometry shifts front to rear when weight balance moves back or forth but also because they tend to have very high bottom brackets and high centers of gravity.

i would be suspicious that this amount of travel with even taller wheels would make for a skyscraper of a bike. one with kind of sucky tires, to boot...

Next moneymaker in the 29" market will be a 6" bike for sure. Quickly growing FS demand, no offerings bigger than 5".

 

[Cloxxki]

I see your point, but stand by mine, after saying this : a 6" 29"er could be built as a DH-specific bike, made to be fast at WC level downhills. Make the tire, and the bikes will comes. I honestly see how a properly designed bike like that, with somewhat useful tires would just lead the hitparade on the first week. DH Pro's get the absolute max out of their bikes. If there's more in it, they will get more out. Speed. Time.

 

[MtotheF]

hmmmm

I see your point, but stand by mine, after saying this : a 6" 29"er could be built as a DH-specific bike, made to be fast at WC level downhills. Make the tire, and the bikes will comes. I honestly see how a properly designed bike like that, with somewhat useful tires would just lead the hitparade on the first week. DH Pro's get the absolute max out of their bikes. If there's more in it, they will get more out. Speed. Time.

not being a downhiller, i can't comment that way. but, given that there has been a move back to lighter bikes on their behalf lately, as well as increasingly technical courses, i wouldn't be holding my breath on that one.

a 6" DH spec 29" bike would still give up four inches of travel to most competitive DH bikes, and the wheels and tires would have to be so overbuilt to handle the increased abuse that the weight penalty would be significant. and the inertial baggage, which in some cases is seen as a good thing here (and i won't disagree. in some cases, big flywheels are really cool things) in 29land, would be massive.

but, i'd still be interested to check it out and run one down a hill sometime

 

[Padre]

I'm not on board with a DH 29er. Maaaaaybe 26/29.

 

[ozlongboarder]

A year away?

4" of travel...... thats not enough for me. I hope they go for a least 5".

I wonder if Ventana will come out with a 6" travel frame or rocker kit for the ElCap.

The Niner FS 6" prototype is still high on my list. I wish they would give us an update on it.

I think the Exi would work ok on a 6" travel trail bike but we need a 2.5 tire for DH use.

 

[Padre]

4" of travel...... thats not enough for me. I hope they go for a least 5".

I wonder if Ventana will come out with a 6" travel frame or rocker kit for the ElCap.

The Niner FS 6" prototype is still high on my list. I wish they would give us an update on it.

I think the Exi would work ok on a 6" travel trail bike but we need a 2.5 tire for DH use.

According to an email conversation I had with WTB...the DH 29er tire is on the drawing board...expect something in the genre for 07.

 

[ozlongboarder]

According to an email conversation I had with WTB...the DH 29er tire is on the drawing board...expect something in the genre for 07.

That is great news! But why so long?

 

[toddre]

I really hope it's a 7" travel frame with modular dropouts an an ebb. It has to be really expensive ($2500 for frame only), an only about 150 made.
Note my sarcasm

 

[Padre]

That is great news! But why so long?

Not sure, but it had something to do with "molds" etc....they are expensive apparently.

But, take heart, wouldn't 07 stuff come out in 06?

 

[29erchico]

Good news!

According to an email conversation I had with WTB...the DH 29er tire is on the drawing board...expect something in the genre for 07.

Let's hope they release it in both XC and DH versions like the Timberwolf 26er tire that is sold in Race and DH versions. Same mold can support multiple casing weights if I am correct. Possibly Shiggy will weigh in on this.

29erchico

 

[ozlongboarder]

Not sure, but it had something to do with "molds" etc....they are expensive apparently.

But, take heart, wouldn't 07 stuff come out in 06?

I hope, just like cars and most other things........... marketing gotta love it!

 

[Cloxxki]

10 inch on competitive DH bikes? I think Nicolas Voillot (sp?) used something like 6" for his dominance.
Friends of mine do DH, and they seem happy with anything between 170-200mm, so starting under 7".

Increasingly technical DH courses? Supposedly a disadvantage for larger wheels?

I visited this year's Willingen World Cup in Germany. Although the first part of the course was actually more like a biker cross where I could see 26" being senseble, the second bit was all rockgarden, steep drops into slippery hard corners, looking for grip everywhere, trying to stay fluent, I though that I (had I had the balls for DH) would definatly have been faster on a 29"er there. Lay the same course a bit flatter and it's 29" city. And we all know that the steeper it gets, the more the 29"er excells.
Another year at least for the WTB tire...who can pull some string (dump money) with another capable tire maker? Maxxis may already notice their Ignitor 29" making money, and they know a thing or two about FR/DH...

 

[MtotheF]

DH? in holland?

cloxxi, you'd be very hard pressed to find a DH bike with less than 8" rear travel these days. nico might be a god, but he was also competing at a time when suspension was still evolving at a very rapid rate. where i am, the northern sierras, many people are now happily riding 5" all-round trail bikes (which, if you think about it, is more travel than any DH bike had back in 1995), and the DH racers are all in the 8-10" range.

and yes, increasingly technical courses would be a disadvantage for big wheels. my big wheels are a noticeable handicap in serious rock/drop/tight terrain. i know most of you here would disagree, but i've been spending a lot of time on both big and small wheels over the last six years, and i still think big wheels run into some behavioral limitations when the going gets really gnarly. but, your mileage may vary, and whatever works best for you is the way to go. but i have to disagree about 29" bikes with regard to "the steeper it gets, the more 29" excels" comment. that is the one area that i think is a definite achilles heel for these bikes. rolling terrain and flat ground, they are total assassins, however...

10 inch on competitive DH bikes? I think Nicolas Voillot (sp?) used something like 6" for his dominance.
Friends of mine do DH, and they seem happy with anything between 170-200mm, so starting under 7".

Increasingly technical DH courses? Supposedly a disadvantage for larger wheels?

I visited this year's Willingen World Cup in Germany. Although the first part of the course was actually more like a biker cross where I could see 26" being senseble, the second bit was all rockgarden, steep drops into slippery hard corners, looking for grip everywhere, trying to stay fluent, I though that I (had I had the balls for DH) would definatly have been faster on a 29"er there. Lay the same course a bit flatter and it's 29" city. And we all know that the steeper it gets, the more the 29"er excells.
Another year at least for the WTB tire...who can pull some string (dump money) with another capable tire maker? Maxxis may already notice their Ignitor 29" making money, and they know a thing or two about FR/DH...

 

[heenan]

4 inches

The Niner FS 6" prototype is still high on my list. I wish they would give us an update on it.

I think the Exi would work ok on a 6" travel trail bike but we need a 2.5 tire for DH use.

Niner is moving forward on a 4.5" travel version of their full suspension. It is due out around June. They basically said that the industry could not support a 6" travel 29er right now.

 

[Lutarious]

Backing up a bit...

I'm guessing that a lot of the so-called DH bikes are sold to young uns in the freeride arena. If that is true, then I think we will be waiting a long time for a DH/Freeride 29er. THose kids don't seem real interested at this point.

 

[Cloxxki]

Hmmm, as confidence inspiring 29" seems to be for many riders, it would surprise me if I'd find them to be cumbersome in gnarly conditions. I increasingly get the impression that DH get more and more suspension to make up for the small wheels getting hung up on every other rock or root. Obstacles are too large for the speed travelled. That's what it looked like to me on the prety intense Willingen course.
The real waiting is simply on a capable 29" tire (I like to call the next step 30", it sound more muscular and manly or something, DH crowd would never embrace an XC term or concept).
Walt's been building big DH bikes that are ready and waiting for it.
With a set of wide-ass DH hubs, 36 or 40 spokes, and Kris Holm rims, surely the first steps can be taken without being held back by lack of strength or stiffness?

And yes, I did hear some DH'ers refer to Nico as god.

 

[El Caballo]

The whole thing is waiting on tires.

Unfortunately, we're in a chicken/egg situation. Long travel 29ers aren't very interesting until you can buy a big tire for them, so no one will sell very many until that happens -- but the manufacturers don't want to make a tire until the bikes are already out there.

The only easy way out is for a major manufacturer to design a bike that needs a 2.5" tire -- but there's no sign of Gary Fisher stepping up to produce a 29" King Fisher.

 

[Soupboy]

No Offense

But big fuggin whoop if Turner builds a 29er FS with TNT. That bike basically exists today in the form of a 3" or 5" travel Lenz or 4/5" travel El Cap.

Shoot, at least Titus, Intense and Niner (prospectively) offer something different...

Too little to late from Turner for me unless they create a HL/ICT version. I'd be more than happy to come out of pocket for the delta in pricing vs. TNT.