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Tubless On A Budget

792 Views 8 Replies 3 Participants Last post by LO-TrEK, Jul 17, 2006

RagerXS

Discussion Starter · Jul 15, 2006 (Edited)

Do I have to get a new wheelset? I currently have Mavic wheels (238 F, 521 R). I have a Mythos XC on the front and the rear tire is toast (Ritchie ZMax, used up) so I'm open to buying at least one tire (recomendation? Panaracer Fire XC?) if not two, depending on whether the Mythos can run tubeless. If a better wheel/wheelset can be had on a budget I'm all ears, but I'm hoping to hear that there is another option.

BTW, I did some searching with no luck so if this has been covered it could be that 'tubeless budget' was just a bad combination to search with. In that case just let me know what I should be searching on...

Edit: I should add that I'm running V-brakes and a change to discs is not in the plan for my hardtail in the near future.

TIA,
~ Fred

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RagerXS

Discussion Starter · #2 · Jul 17, 2006

Update

First, I've done some additional searching and found the Stan's kit is what I was looking for.

Meanwhile, I rode today and my rear hub started to fail. Should I just get a hub for my current wheel, or opt for a wheel set?

For me it is more about what is most cost-effective, not necessarily cheapest. FWIW, I ride XC on a HT and would like to keep the weight down, within reason.

TIA,
~ Fred

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BrandonJ

· #3 · Jul 17, 2006

What is your budget exactly? I've used Stan's kit for quiet some time with very good luck. I've also made my own rim strips from 24" BMX wal-mart tubes and used Stan's sealant also with very good luck. I would not recommend standard tires converted tubeless.....stick with UST tires. Consider Stan's as a tubeless conversion for standard rims, not tires.

You can get Pana Fire XC UST tires 2 for $49 at Jenson....a very good deal. I've found it to be a good all around tire and is what I currently run on my single speed front and rear with the BMX tube rim strip conversion. I have a buddy who just got the IRC Mythos USTs and is very happy with them as well.

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RagerXS

Discussion Starter · #4 · Jul 17, 2006

I'd like to keep the total package under $500 for wheels and tires. That doesn't mean I need to spend $499 instead of say $519, especially if for example there is a $380 or $250 solution that only means 15-20 g additional weight per wheel where they are otherwise equivalent.

I've never bought a wheelset before, so other than some recent shopping and reading of reviews on this site I have no real idea what spending different amounts will get me. What I'd love to see is a break down like this:

$xxx gets you entry level gear
another $xxx gets you tubeless wheels
another $xxx gets you a decent hub
another $xxx gets you a better hub (and so on)
another $xxx gets you ___ weight savings
another $xxx gets you ___ more weight savings (and so on)

From my experience, regardless of what it is you are buying you can always spend more and get better. But there is usually a clear line where the return on investment dramatically falls off. I don't race, and I'm pushing 40 and have no plans to ever race so I don't need every last competitive advantage. I just want a very good, light weight, dependable wheelset that I can reasonably expect to be the last wheelset I buy if that is possible.

Regards,
~ Fred

P.S. I don't know the brand of my failed hub, but it has a carbon fiber wrap around a metal hub and there is an emblem affixed to the CF wrap -- it is the nuclear pinwheel symbol. My impression is that the CF was not strong enough to withstand the use. It clearly fits inside on both ends of the hub so it was not something the previous owner added.

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BrandonJ

· #5 · Jul 17, 2006 (Edited)

RagerXS said:
I'd like to keep the total package under $500 for wheels and tires. That doesn't mean I need to spend $499 instead of say $519, especially if for example there is a $380 or $250 solution that only means 15-20 g additional weight per wheel where they are otherwise equivalent.

I've never bought a wheelset before, so other than some recent shopping and reading of reviews on this site I have no real idea what spending different amounts will get me. What I'd love to see is a break down like this:

$xxx gets you entry level gear
another $xxx gets you tubeless wheels
another $xxx gets you a decent hub
another $xxx gets you a better hub (and so on)
another $xxx gets you ___ weight savings
another $xxx gets you ___ more weight savings (and so on)

From my experience, regardless of what it is you are buying you can always spend more and get better. But there is usually a clear line where the return on investment dramatically falls off. I don't race, and I'm pushing 40 and have no plans to ever race so I don't need every last competitive advantage. I just want a very good, light weight, dependable wheelset that I can reasonably expect to be the last wheelset I buy if that is possible.

Regards,
~ Fred

P.S. I don't know the brand of my failed hub, but it has a carbon fiber wrap around a metal hub and there is an emblem affixed to the CF wrap -- it is the nuclear pinwheel symbol. My impression is that the CF was not strong enough to withstand the use. It clearly fits inside on both ends of the hub so it was not something the previous owner added.

How's this, you can get a custom built wheelset from Universal Cycles. I just bought a set of Mavic XM819s (UST) with black DT Swiss Comp DB spokes and Hope Pro2 hubs for $500 plus shipping. I just priced the same wheels with Shimano XT hubs for $330 plus shipping. For $440, you can get these wheels with Hope XC hubs. XT hubs are a pretty good low cost hub that are easy to find parts for and shops that can rebuild them, however, they are heavy. I went with Hope Pro2s because I'm a clyde. I would have gone with the Hope XCs if I weren't so large. You can shave the price a little by going with non double butted spokes and silver spokes.

For what it's worth, you probably stand a better chance of the "last wheelset" scenario with Hope hubs than Shimano though Shimano hubs can be rebuilt over and over again (of course they are still heavy).

As for the price to weight breakdown, just go to Universal's website and look at the hubs. They have the weights listed for each.

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RagerXS

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jul 17, 2006

Thanks, Brandon.

I'm 6'-0", 185-190 lbs. I couldn't find weights for the Pro2's. The XC's were 200g (F) for $53 and 385g (R) for $143, while the XT's varied as there are 3 flavors of XT. The lightest I found were the Shimano HB-M760 XT Front Hub is 202g for $32.99, and the Shimano FH-M760 XT Rear Hub is 455g for $50.99. So for $112 extra in hubs alone I can save 72g in weight.

But the Hope hubs 'appear' to be disc hubs. I don't have disc brakes -- can disc hubs be used on non-disc bikes?

~ Fred

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BrandonJ

· #7 · Jul 17, 2006

RagerXS said:
Thanks, Brandon.

I'm 6'-0", 185-190 lbs. I couldn't find weights for the Pro2's. The XC's were 200g (F) for $53 and 385g (R) for $143, while the XT's varied as there are 3 flavors of XT. The lightest I found were the Shimano HB-M760 XT Front Hub is 202g for $32.99, and the Shimano FH-M760 XT Rear Hub is 455g for $50.99. So for $112 extra in hubs alone I can save 72g in weight.

But the Hope hubs 'appear' to be disc hubs. I don't have disc brakes -- can disc hubs be used on non-disc bikes?

~ Fred

I think I found the Hope Pro2 weights on PricePoint. The front is 188g and the rear is 285g. They are actually a little lighter than the Hope XCs I think. You absolutely can use disc hubs even with discs and you can get the Mavic XM819s in a rim brake version. Spending this much money, if you don't have discs now, you should absolutely go ahead and buy disc hubs so you'll be ready when you do upgrade to discs. Sure they might weigh a little more than non-disc hubs but considered you won't have to re-buy in the future....it should be worth it. If you compare the XT disc to Hopes or other high end disc hubs, you will find a much more significant weight difference. I think Shimano is one of the few companies still making non-disc hubs.

There's no question that the Hope XC or Pro2s will be better than the XTs, the question is if you are willing to spend the money. If you can do it, go for the XTs. They are still a very good hub...they are just heavy and don't have sealed cartridge bearings. IMHO, they still are the best bang for the buck in hubs. And I would say you are freeking nuts to think about buying non-disc hubs. One of these days, you would wish you hadn't.

And for what it's worth, I'm 6' 260#. For you, the Hope XCs would be plenty strong enough. Lastly, you can mix hub brands/models in the custom built. For example, the rear hubs is where the weights get serious. You could pay a little more for the lighter Pro2 rear hub and go with the XC front to save a little.

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BrandonJ

· #8 · Jul 17, 2006

Another possibility...

RagerXS said:
Thanks, Brandon.

I'm 6'-0", 185-190 lbs. I couldn't find weights for the Pro2's. The XC's were 200g (F) for $53 and 385g (R) for $143, while the XT's varied as there are 3 flavors of XT. The lightest I found were the Shimano HB-M760 XT Front Hub is 202g for $32.99, and the Shimano FH-M760 XT Rear Hub is 455g for $50.99. So for $112 extra in hubs alone I can save 72g in weight.

But the Hope hubs 'appear' to be disc hubs. I don't have disc brakes -- can disc hubs be used on non-disc bikes?

~ Fred

$446 gets you the XM819s, Hope XC front, Hope Pro2 rear, the 16mm UST nipples, and silver non-double butted DT Swiss Champion spokes. The black Champions are $10 more. The double butted spokes add another $20 or so.

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LO-TrEK

· #9 · Jul 17, 2006

fyi, sounds like your failed hub is/was a Nukeproof. I believe they went out of business a while back.

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