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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm looking at putting tubeless tires on my brand spankin' new SC Nomad, but I don't know a bloody thing about them.

Wondering if someone could tell me:

1) What's involved in putting on these "conversion" things (ie., what are they and why do I need them, and

2) What kind of tubeless tires should I buy?

Thanks.
JCD
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
shiggy said:
The simplest, easiest and most reliable tubeless is Mavic UST tubeless rims with UST tires. Lots of tire choices now.

This thread has the most balanced views on "conversion" (DIY tubeless) I have seen: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=95422
Dude, that looks like a lot of work. One question: Not sure what the soap is for. You'd think that it would be harder to get sealed that way. How much do you think a bike shop would charge you to do all that? Also, how much are the conversion kits?

Thanks for the info.

Late,
Jeff
 

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jcdawes said:
Dude, that looks like a lot of work. One question: Not sure what the soap is for. You'd think that it would be harder to get sealed that way. How much do you think a bike shop would charge you to do all that? Also, how much are the conversion kits?

Thanks for the info.

Late,
Jeff
Remember that you have to be able to deal with a flat on the trail with whatever setup you are using. Any pneumatic tire can get flats.

The soap is a lube helping the beads to seat. It also helps with the initial air seal.

I do not recommend DIY tubeless for any combo of standard tires and/or rims.
 

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jcdawes said:
Dude, that looks like a lot of work. One question: Not sure what the soap is for. You'd think that it would be harder to get sealed that way. How much do you think a bike shop would charge you to do all that? Also, how much are the conversion kits?

Thanks for the info.

Late,
Jeff
It's not that hard. I was able to convert both my rims and mount the tires with Stan's notubes in 1.5 hour. The good thing is that I've never had a flat since then.
 

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Soap also helps to get the tire on if it's a tight fit. My Nevegals were a pain to get without the Soapy water. Make sure you don't break the valve stem. Did that yesterday. 15.00 bucks per valve stem @ lbs. 8 bucks from Jensonusa.com, but with shipping it's about the same as the Lbs. Carry loctite to fill flats. Very simple to do. Or you can just carry a spare tube if you don't want to deal with it on the trail. However again, hopefully the tire and rim isn't a tight fit. I definitely notice the rolling difference between tubed and UST. Downer: thorns pierce my casing in the Nevegals too easy. 10 loctite applications. If the tire wasn't too picky about the type of sealant to use, I would use the non-latex type of sealant. Kenda voids the warranty if any type of sealant is used. The ust's are on my hartail. My new yeti 575 are running tubes.I'm not too concerned about rolling weight. I don't run super low air pressure to worry about pinch flats. My 575 isn't set up with UST rims. So, I"m sticking with tubes for now.
 

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95Stumpy said:
Soap also helps to get the tire on if it's a tight fit. My Nevegals were a pain to get without the Soapy water. Make sure you don't break the valve stem. Did that yesterday. 15.00 bucks per valve stem @ lbs. 8 bucks from Jensonusa.com, but with shipping it's about the same as the Lbs. Carry loctite to fill flats. Very simple to do. Or you can just carry a spare tube if you don't want to deal with it on the trail. However again, hopefully the tire and rim isn't a tight fit. I definitely notice the rolling difference between tubed and UST. Downer: thorns pierce my casing in the Nevegals too easy. 10 loctite applications. If the tire wasn't too picky about the type of sealant to use, I would use the non-latex type of sealant. Kenda voids the warranty if any type of sealant is used. The ust's are on my hartail. My new yeti 575 are running tubes.I'm not too concerned about rolling weight. I don't run super low air pressure to worry about pinch flats. My 575 isn't set up with UST rims. So, I"m sticking with tubes for now.
How the heck do you break a valve stem?
 

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Well, I wouldn't say it was the bigger part of the valve stem. The smaller portion that you unscrew to put air in it. I must have hit it just right when I had my bike on my rack and tore the little piece off. I'm thinking it was unscrewed to begin with. Lesson learned. :(
 

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95Stumpy said:
Well, I wouldn't say it was the bigger part of the valve stem. The smaller portion that you unscrew to put air in it. I must have hit it just right when I had my bike on my rack and tore the little piece off. I'm thinking it was unscrewed to begin with. Lesson learned. :(
Ahh...That could be the first good reason I have heard of to use valve caps.
 

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Yeah, the valve cap is in my jacket pocket. I was working on my bike a few days ago and put the cap in my pocket. I realized a few days later and was meaning to put it back on. My bike was hanging on the wall and I was too lazy to bring it down to put the cap on. I installed a new bike rack on my hitch and was trying it out with both of my bikes when I broke the darn thing. If I had put the cap on, then the valve stem top would have been up therefore it would have never been in the position to be broken. Yes, this is a good reason to use the valve caps.
 

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95Stumpy said:
Yeah, the valve cap is in my jacket pocket. I was working on my bike a few days ago and put the cap in my pocket. I realized a few days later and was meaning to put it back on. My bike was hanging on the wall and I was too lazy to bring it down to put the cap on. I installed a new bike rack on my hitch and was trying it out with both of my bikes when I broke the darn thing. If I had put the cap on, then the valve stem top would have been up therefore it would have never been in the position to be broken. Yes, this is a good reason to use the valve caps.
Of course I never use valve caps...
 

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zorg said:
It's not that hard. I was able to convert both my rims and mount the tires with Stan's notubes in 1.5 hour. The good thing is that I've never had a flat since then.
I've done it (using Eclipse tubeless) with numerous sets of wheels now, and I can set up a tire in less than 20 minutes with little if any mess. I haven't flatted in over 2 years of regular use on the trails. I ran tubes in my back up bike about 3 weeks ago on a regular trail for me and sure enough, I flatted.

There have been other recent threads on the "save some weight" forum that spell out the positives and negatives pretty well. There are definitely trade-offs, but I feel that the benefits outweigh the negatives.
 

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Shiggy, do you know how hard it is to find a valve stem for my UST mavic's at my LBSs? Very hard. Either they don't have it in stock or they don't know what it is. One lbs has it but it's part of a package for a bike on his floor. He can't sell it to me because he doesn't know if he can replace it. I totally understand that. However, he wants me to bring my rim in and see what I need. Luckily, I found another LBS that ordered it on Monday from Mavic and hopes to have it in by Thursday.
 

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95Stumpy said:
Shiggy, do you know how hard it is to find a valve stem for my UST mavic's at my LBSs? Very hard. Either they don't have it in stock or they don't know what it is. One lbs has it but it's part of a package for a bike on his floor. He can't sell it to me because he doesn't know if he can replace it. I totally understand that. However, he wants me to bring my rim in and see what I need. Luckily, I found another LBS that ordered it on Monday from Mavic and hopes to have it in by Thursday.
Sorry to hear that. I know that Jenson sells the Mavic valves. What you could do to protect the valve is install the included schrader-size sleeve over the basic valve. Would be a bit more awkward to inflate but would offer protection.
 

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Thanks for the info. I've seen the stems at Jenson. Trying to support my LBSs. Sometimes they just make it so hard though. In the meantime, just to confirm with you, I can run a tube with my UST nevegals on my mavic crosslands right?
 

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jcdawes said:
Dude, that looks like a lot of work. One question: Not sure what the soap is for. You'd think that it would be harder to get sealed that way. How much do you think a bike shop would charge you to do all that? Also, how much are the conversion kits?

Thanks for the info.

Late,
Jeff
Actually the Stan's and other DIY tubeless setups aren't that tough as long as you have the right rim and tire combo. If you are running wide (freeride style) rims, you will have a tough time getting 2.1 tires to inflate. If you go with 2.3s it will be much easier. The soap is not always required. In the Stan's installs I have done, no soap was ever needed but in my installs, only UST tires were used.

If you go the Stan's route, you should consider sticking with UST tires only. Doing so will save some pain during the install/inflation. Also, most of the bad reviews you read about Stan's are people trying to use standard tires.

For the Nomad, you should probably look at something bigger than a 2.1 tire. The Continental Vertical comes in a 2.3 UST model. Unfortunately, there are very few 2.3 and larger UST tires at this point. I don't really get this because it seems to me that trail and free riders stand to gain the most from tubeless.

Lastly, even if you use UST tires and UST rims, using sealant is still something to consider as it can give an extra bit of flat protection from punctures. As for on-trail flats (which are much fewer than running tubed), just take a tube with you. If you flat, you just pull out the rim strip or UST valve stem, put in the tube, and air up to get you home.
 

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OK, I have to admit I still don't get what I need to go tubeless. I understand the Stan's concept, but do I need Stan's?

Here are a few of my questions:
Can I just get a tubeless rim strip and a tubeless tire and am good to go? Where would I get a rim strip and which one? (I haven't found anything but the Stan's stuff online)
Do I need sealant with a tubeless tire?
How hard is it to find the puncture hole in a tubeless tire and how hard is it to seal it with glue?
I also found a webpage where they patched a tubeless tire. Does anybody have experience with that and how well does it work?
 

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UST rim or no UST rim

If you have UST rims you can run UST rim + UST tire and no sealant is required but a good idea for puncture protection.
If you have UST rim and standard tire you need a tube or sealant.
If you have standard rim and standard tire you need rim strips, sealant, a compressor would be useful, patients, luck of the Irish or just a tube.
Oh yeah, never use tire levers, you must put all tires on without mechanical assistance.
 

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RJG said:
If you have UST rims you can run UST rim + UST tire and no sealant is required but a good idea for puncture protection.
If you have UST rim and standard tire you need a tube or sealant.
If you have standard rim and standard tire you need rim strips, sealant, a compressor would be useful, patients, luck of the Irish or just a tube.
Oh yeah, never use tire levers, you must put all tires on without mechanical assistance.
Thanks for the reply but it doesn't really answer my questions. Maybe I wasn't very clear.

What is the difference between a UST and a non-UST rim? Is it only the rim strip?

If I have a non-UST rim and want to go tubeless (with an UST tire), what do I have to do? Like I said I understand the Stan's thing, but would I have any other options like a Mavic UST rim strip or whatever?
 

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carl1266 said:
Thanks for the reply but it doesn't really answer my questions. Maybe I wasn't very clear.

What is the difference between a UST and a non-UST rim? Is it only the rim strip?

If I have a non-UST rim and want to go tubeless (with an UST tire), what do I have to do? Like I said I understand the Stan's thing, but would I have any other options like a Mavic UST rim strip or whatever?
UST tires have a film layer inside that seals them off so that they don't leak air out, whereas regular tires are porous hence the need for tire sealant (Notubes, homemade, Truegoo, etc.).

If you have a non-UST rim, you need a rim strip (Stan's, DT eclipse for DT rims, homemade or Maxxis) to run your tire tubeless (UST or not). Stan's is kind of expensive but it works very well. I have no experience with the others.
 
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