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Tubeless tire not popping when install

5524 Views 30 Replies 17 Participants Last post by Fuse6F, Jan 25, 2022

dinsum

Discussion Starter · Jan 24, 2022

Hi,

I just built up a cheap set of MTB carbon wheels, they are tubeless ready

I tried to install a tubeless tire and to my surprise there was no popping sounds, maybe just a little pop sound but nothing more. The tire is seated uniform and I can see the line is uniform as well, the tire spins true.

When I release all the air in the tire and push it with my thumb it moves to the inner channel of the rim pretty easily... unlike my other set of carbon wheels the tire has loud pops when installing and when I release all the air the tire stays on the rim nice and tight.

With 7 psi or above I can't seem to push the tire into the inner part of the rim even with a lot of force, will they work out fine? Its on a XC bike

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1 - 20 of 31 Posts

Cleared2land

· #2 · Jan 24, 2022

Would you feel better if it popped?

dinsum

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jan 24, 2022

Cleared2land said:
Would you feel better if it popped?

No popping sound is not my main concern, my main concern is after releasing all the air from the tire the bead is not set anymore and the tire easily pushes back into the middle channel of the rim. All other tubeless rims I have owned (about 6 wheelsets) the bead stays in place after releasing all the air and actually requires some force with the thumbs to break it free, no force is required with this wheelset I just built

fredcook

· #4 · Jan 24, 2022

The tape looks like it's well into the outer channel. Maybe that's softening the 'pop'. In the past, I've had wide that gets between the tire and rim make it difficult to seat and unseat tires.

LVLBTY

· #5 · Jan 24, 2022

dinsum said:
my main concern is after releasing all the air from the tire the bead is not set anymore and the tire easily pushes back into the middle channel of the rim.

Give the sealant a few weeks and that tire will be stuck much tighter on the edge of the rim.

cmg

· #6 · Jan 24, 2022

dinsum said:
No popping sound is not my main concern, my main concern is after releasing all the air from the tire the bead is not set anymore and the tire easily pushes back into the middle channel of the rim. All other tubeless rims I have owned (about 6 wheelsets) the bead stays in place after releasing all the air and actually requires some force with the thumbs to break it free, no force is required with this wheelset I just built

l agree with this concern, the tyre should still need a little force to break the bead, also when flat.
Do you have the possibility to measure your rims compared to your old ones?
When inflated, and ridden, do these ones hold air?

Im thinking small rims, or big tyres, but you didnt say what tyres they are.
For eg my Schwalbes ( MM front, NN rear) are easy to mount, and take off, but they still hold the bead when flat.

Reactions: 1

s0ckeyeus

· #7 · Jan 24, 2022

Does the fact that these are hookless rims make a difference? I'd think conventional rims would produce a louder pop and more resistance when pushing the tire away from the rim, but that's pure speculation.

Reactions: 1

goroncy

· #8 · Jan 24, 2022

dinsum said:
Hi,

I just built up a cheap set of MTB carbon wheels, they are tubeless ready

I tried to install a tubeless tire and to my surprise there was no popping sounds, maybe just a little pop sound but nothing more. The tire is seated uniform and I can see the line is uniform as well, the tire spins true.

When I release all the air in the tire and push it with my thumb it moves to the inner channel of the rim pretty easily... unlike my other set of carbon wheels the tire has loud pops when installing and when I release all the air the tire stays on the rim nice and tight.

With 7 psi or above I can't seem to push the tire into the inner part of the rim even with a lot of force, will they work out fine? Its on a XC bike View attachment 1966723

The rim tape on this wheel is installed poorly. It shouldn't protrude onto the rim wall. It may cause air leaks and lots of other problems. The fact that it's installed poorly has nothing to do with the lack of popping sound. The lack of this sound is caused by the type of the rim from the picture.

Popping sound is caused by abruptly overcome static friction between outside wall of the tire and the inner hook of the rim. Your rim is hookless. There is no friction to overcome. There still might be some small pop sometimes but it would come from the tire going quickly from the inner channel of the rim to the space close to the rim wall.

Reactions: 1

dinsum

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jan 24, 2022

LVLBTY said:
Give the sealant a few weeks and that tire will be stuck much tighter on the edge of the rim.

This could be true, I have not used sealant yet I only dry fitted to the rim and removed it right after. I will install with sealant and go for a ride when I get the chance, maybe next time I remove them they will be on tighter.

cmg said:
l agree with this concern, the tyre should still need a little force to break the bead, also when flat.
Do you have the possibility to measure your rims compared to your old ones?
When inflated, and ridden, do these ones hold air?

Im thinking small rims, or big tyres, but you didnt say what tyres they are.
For eg my Schwalbes ( MM front, NN rear) are easy to mount, and take off, but they still hold the bead when flat.

I have not ridden them yet, have not put sealant either but they hold air really good and like I was saying before even with as little as 7psi in the tire I can't seam to push the bead into the center channel. I think these will be fine I will test them soon but I just wanted some more opinions on the matter

Redlands R&C

· #10 · Jan 24, 2022

goroncy said:
The rim tape on this wheel is installed poorly. It shouldn't protrude onto the rim wall.

I have 10+ sets of wheels in the garage right now and they all have tape that rides up the rim wall a little bit. I know many others do this also. It is why you generally have rim tape a little bit wider than the rim channel.

Reactions: 5

dinsum

Discussion Starter · #11 · Jan 24, 2022

goroncy said:
The rim tape on this wheel is installed poorly. It shouldn't protrude onto the rim wall. It may cause air leaks and lots of other problems. The fact that it's installed poorly has nothing to do with the lack of popping sound. The lack of this sound is caused by the type of the rim from the picture.

Popping sound is caused by abruptly overcome static friction between outside wall of the tire and the inner hook of the rim. Your rim is hookless. There is no friction to overcome. There still might be some small pop sometimes but it would come from the tire going quickly from the inner channel of the rim to the space close to the rim wall.

Actually I am quite good at installing tubeless tape, you can say it was installed poorly but that's not the case at all, however the width of the rim tape is just a little wide for the job that I can agree with but having a little bit of tape go onto the inner wall has no ill effects, especially the thin tubeless tape I am using.

All 6 tubeless wheelsets I have owned were hookless, and all made loud popping sounds except this set. It appears the popping sound has more to do with the inner hump instead of hookless vs clincher

Reactions: 1

driven916

· #12 · Jan 24, 2022

It sounds like you're getting a good seal. You could always add another layer of tubeless tape which would make a tighter fit and help keep the bead on the shelf. It would also offer more resistance getting the bead onto the shelf when filling and could deliver that pop you're looking for.

Reactions: 1

dinsum

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jan 24, 2022

driven916 said:
It sounds like you're getting a good seal. You could always add another layer of tubeless tape which would make a tighter fit and help keep the bead on the shelf. It would also offer more resistance getting the bead onto the shelf when filling and could deliver that pop you're looking for.

Thanks for the tip, I did try installing two layers of tape and it made no difference for install or removal, then I tried 3 layers of tape and again install and removal was exact same so it did not help my situation. I think the problem is these new rims don't seem to have quite as large of the inner hump as all my other rims but I think they will be fine. Maybe I could try putting gorilla tape on tope of my tubeless tape to really build it up but I will only try that if they do not seal properly when I get a chance to go for a ride

Reactions: 1

goroncy

· #14 · Jan 24, 2022

Redlands R&C said:
I have 10+ sets of wheels in the garage right now and they all have tape that rides up the rim wall a little bit. I know many others do this also. It is why you generally have rim tape a little bit wider than the rim channel.

This is pure nonsense. "It is why you generally have rim tape a little bit wider than the rim channel." No. Rim tape is wider because it accounts for the nontrivial shape of the rim. The result should be that the rim tape never goes onto the rim walls. All your wheels are poorly taped with tubeless tape. This kind of bad taping is on of the reasons why people keep asking the same question. Why is my tubeless wheel keeps letting air out. Another problem with your tape is that every time you will take your tire off and on for whatever reason, the tape may and will unglue itself. After a season or two of hard riding your tape will be flapping around the whole rim. Check service manual in companies like DT what width of tape fits which rim and how the end result should look like.

goroncy

· #15 · Jan 24, 2022

dinsum said:
Thanks for the tip, I did try installing two layers of tape and it made no difference for install or removal, then I tried 3 layers of tape and again install and removal was exact same so it did not help my situation. I think the problem is these new rims don't seem to have quite as large of the inner hump as all my other rims but I think they will be fine. Maybe I could try putting gorilla tape on tope of my tubeless tape to really build it up but I will only try that if they do not seal properly when I get a chance to go for a ride

Try 10 layers. Will help for sure. Like 1 aspirin is good for hangover. 10 works best for cancer.

J.B. Weld

· #16 · Jan 24, 2022

goroncy said:
The rim tape on this wheel is installed poorly. It shouldn't protrude onto the rim wall.

Looks optimal to me. Stan's recommends 3-5mm wider than the rims internal width. That's the way I've always done it and results have been excellent.

goroncy

· #17 · Jan 24, 2022

J.B. Weld said:
Looks optimal to me. Stan's recommends 3-5mm wider than the rims internal width. That's the way I've always done it and results have been excellent.

And that is simply a lie. From Stan's website:

"Stan's 25mm Rim Tape is recommended for rims with an internal width of 23-25mm."

www.notubes.com

Stan's Rim Tape, 10yd x 25mm

FEATURES: Creates durable, airtight seal over spoke holes Completely non-porous vapor barrier seals rim interior from moisture Natural gum rubber adhesive sticks where and when you want it to but leaves no residue Low friction surface helps tire beads slip into place FITMENT: Stan's...

www.notubes.com

.

DT Swiss don't even recommend. They have a chart. E.g. 30mm internal width rim must be used with 32mm rim tape. The result is rim tape lying flat and never goes up the rim walls even half a millimeter.

So NOT 3-5mm wider but exactly 2mm. Which is exactly (usually) how much a curved shape of the rim consumes.

J.B. Weld

· #18 · Jan 24, 2022

goroncy said:
And that is simply a lie. From Stan's website

Jeez chill. It was quite awhile ago when I read it but I ain't lying. Anyway as mentioned I always go for about 3mm over and it works great.

J.B. Weld

· #19 · Jan 24, 2022

My bad, 5mm over is wtb's recommendation.

Frequently Asked Questions

FAQs - Frequently Asked Questions - User Manuals- Resources

www.wtb.com

Redlands R&C

· #20 · Jan 24, 2022

goroncy said:
This is pure nonsense. "It is why you generally have rim tape a little bit wider than the rim channel." No. Rim tape is wider because it accounts for the nontrivial shape of the rim. The result should be that the rim tape never goes onto the rim walls. All your wheels are poorly taped with tubeless tape. This kind of bad taping is on of the reasons why people keep asking the same question. Why is my tubeless wheel keeps letting air out. Another problem with your tape is that every time you will take your tire off and on for whatever reason, the tape may and will unglue itself. After a season or two of hard riding your tape will be flapping around the whole rim. Check service manual in companies like DT what width of tape fits which rim and how the end result should look like.

Go ride your bike. Might help your bad attitude. My tubeless holds air very well and I don't have any of the problems you mention.

Reactions: 2

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