tubeless on laser disc trail
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Just did it with a Weirwolf and worked fine, did the back with a crossmark on a WTB all mountain, had problems sealing at first but is good now, I think it actually wasn't sealing a the stem, the bead was ok. I had a hard time gettin the stans strip to lay in rim perfectly even, but I believe in the Trail rim I only used 2 layers of the tape that comes with the kit and then the strip and it was good, just use a lot of soapy water to get it tospread evenly.
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I've had good success with SpeedDisc AM's (similar rim profile to Laserdisc Trail) running Ghetto Tubeless (split tube) with standard tires and Gorilla Tape with tubeless ready tires. The Kenda Klaws suck for tubeless...they would not seal up IME. Michelin AT, Kenda Nevegal, and IRC Mythos II (wire bead) have all worked well.
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I just looked on the Stans site yesterday and they have instructions on getting a good seal with the Laserdisc trail.
They do recommend plugging the channel with insulation foam underneath the tape.
They do recommend plugging the channel with insulation foam underneath the tape.
I've had limited success with just 2 layers of electrical tape & a cloth rim strip. The issue doesn't appear with either but with the seam, as that's where it's weeping/leaking. But that was with a combo of Fix-A-Flat & a couple of ounces of Slime for tubeless tires. Seems to be doing a bit better since I added Schwinn tire sealant a little more than a week ago. The Schwinn stuff was more viscous than either the Fix-A-Flat (very liquid) or Slime so that probably accounts for the improvent. Despite using less than the recommended amount. Only time will tell if it holds for the long term. Will definitely be my last WTB rim though. I'll use Salsa Semi's next time.
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set up my father's laser disc trail wheels tubes with wtb vulpine 2.1 over christmas. (felt nine elite christmas present). i called no tubes ahead of time. they recommended the plus four rim strip and filling the rim cavity with 3/8” x 3/16” weather stripping from FROST KING. we actually found the exact weather stripping at Walmart. used an air compressor, because he's got one in the basement. it took two tries with one of the wheel. but other than that, everything went smoothly. they're still holding air.
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I found they worked quite well, no weather stripping, just some velox rim tape (16mm) in the bead well. Seated no problem, floor pump, with Maxxis and Kenda tires. Burping on the other hand was atrocious.
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Burps
Pretty sure that the reason they're burping on you is because you didn't use the weather stripping in the channel. Your rim strim being flat all the way across the bottom of the rim is pretty important, which is why they have you fill the void with weather stripping. When that bead gets pushed inward in a burp scenario, if the rim strip is flat it will only burp minimal air.....if the bead pushes in and meets that big void, it will let an 'atrocious' amount of air in.
I have great luck with my laserdiscs, with weatherstripping, extreme rocks and roots at around 28psi. Had to use compressed air to get them seated at first though.
Pretty sure that the reason they're burping on you is because you didn't use the weather stripping in the channel. Your rim strim being flat all the way across the bottom of the rim is pretty important, which is why they have you fill the void with weather stripping. When that bead gets pushed inward in a burp scenario, if the rim strip is flat it will only burp minimal air.....if the bead pushes in and meets that big void, it will let an 'atrocious' amount of air in.
I have great luck with my laserdiscs, with weatherstripping, extreme rocks and roots at around 28psi. Had to use compressed air to get them seated at first though.
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304 Posts
CaffeLatex converstion this week on the traildisc 29ers
Anyone tried to convert the WTB Traildisc with CaffeLatex yet? I should have the "heavy duty" kit (27mm) this week and am debating on if I need to use the stan's method of filling the channel with weatherstripping. The conversion is pretty similar but only uses 1 strip of rimtape...not an actual liner like Stan's. Thanks in advance!
Anyone tried to convert the WTB Traildisc with CaffeLatex yet? I should have the "heavy duty" kit (27mm) this week and am debating on if I need to use the stan's method of filling the channel with weatherstripping. The conversion is pretty similar but only uses 1 strip of rimtape...not an actual liner like Stan's. Thanks in advance!
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Follow up fromo CafeLatex.
Just in case anyone else goes down this road...this is what I found out. I am going to use the 12mm yellow tape/weatherstrip/ caffelatex tape. That should work.
Thank you for your interest in Caffélatex!
Our sealing tape is very thin and it would have a hard time sealing a rim like WTB Trail, with a large rectangle drop channel in the center of the rim.
The creator of Caffélatex suggests that you use the Notubes sealing rim-strip and tapes. Our sealant can be used once the rim has been sealed with the strips and tape.
Please let me know if you have any further questions.
Sincerely,
Cantitoe Road
Ashley Shapiro
Just in case anyone else goes down this road...this is what I found out. I am going to use the 12mm yellow tape/weatherstrip/ caffelatex tape. That should work.
Thank you for your interest in Caffélatex!
Our sealing tape is very thin and it would have a hard time sealing a rim like WTB Trail, with a large rectangle drop channel in the center of the rim.
The creator of Caffélatex suggests that you use the Notubes sealing rim-strip and tapes. Our sealant can be used once the rim has been sealed with the strips and tape.
Please let me know if you have any further questions.
Sincerely,
Cantitoe Road
Ashley Shapiro
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304 Posts
Quite impressed. The tire has held air and shows no signs of leaking. I took it out on a 1.5 hour ride today at 34 PSI and it held perfectly! (it is just a standard Ignitor 29 X 2.1 at this point. Will be installing a 2bliss Captain this week)
The steps are noted below.
Images noted here.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157623430357848/detail/
WTB Laserdisc Trail 29 conversion step-by-step instruction process.
To be used on all WTB wheels with the large rectangular drop channel in the center of the rim.
Step 1 - Gather a Few Needed Items
(In this photo)
§ Weather seal Gray 3/8 inch wide X 3/16 inch thick X 17' roll ($2.50 at Lowe's)
§ Rubbing alcohol (blue spray bottle)
§ 12mm Stan's Yellow Tape
§ HD Caffe Tape Kit (HD kit (not the race kit!)
§ Caffélatex Bottle, Caffé Tubeless Valve, & Caffélatex Injector.
Step 2 - Prepare the Wheel
Prepare the wheel, removing the original rim-tape and cleaning the rim-bed with alcohol and a rag (a touch of sand-paper is a good idea if there's any sharp burr at the spoke-holes). Dry the rim-bed with a paper towel or micro fiber towel.
Step 3 - Apply Stan's 12 MM Yellow Tape
Install Stan's 12mm Yellow Tape.
Start 2 inches (5 cm) from the valve hole and stop 2 inches (5 cm) after the valve hole (after 2 complete wraps!). As Stan notes on his install video (notubes.com) the tape is flexible and won't necessarily tear so pull it down while pulling hard on it.
Wrap the rim 2 times with the yellow tape.
Step 4 - Apply Foam Weather seal
Install Weather seal 3/8 inch wide X 3/16 foam.
I had success starting halfway around the rim directly ACROSS from the valve hole.
Don't remove the white/paper backing at this point. Use the already sticky side to install.
Lightly pull the weatherseal around the entire rim.
Note: Not sure if it really matters were you start the weatherseal. I started the seal this way so when I poked the valve hole there was a will be have a complete circle in the foam
Step 5: Install Caffé Tape and poke hole
STOP! IMPORTANT!
Spray rubbing alcohol onto a clean cloth and carefully re-clean the inside of the rim an area especially on the shoulder of the rectangular drop channel (where the caffelatex tape will adhere to. The step will remove any oil residues left from the previous 2 steps. Then proceed with installing the caffe tape as outlined below.
* Remove the white/paper backing of the weatherseal; carefully avoiding touching the inside of the rim surface. *
Using the red Caffelatex tape start 2 inches (5 cm) from the valve hole and stop 2 inches (5 cm) after the valve hole. This will result in 4 inches (10 cm) overlap. The tape is flexible but won't stretch, so put it down while pulling hard on it: this will avoid wrinkles or air bubbles. If the tape doesn't stick well, stop and clean the rim with a paper towel or micro fiber towel. The tape has a good adhesive base, if it doesn't stick there's something wrong with the rim surface.
Make a round hole using a small screwdriver (the smaller the puncture for the valve hole, the easier it will be to get the good air-tightness when inserting the valve).
Step 6 - Use Tube for Perfect Tape Adhesion
(Do this step for the WTB Rims: NOT OPTIONAL)
Mount a tire with an inner-tube on the wheel and keep it at 50-60 psi for several hours. (Beer time! I let my wheels sit for 20 hours) Then remove the tube. This will help ensure perfect tape adhesion and easier tire inflation.
Note: The images below are after the wheel sat with a tube for 20 hours. As you can see there was little adhesion of the tape to the actual weatherseal but the shoulder connection is tight.
Step 5 - Insert the Valve
The smaller the puncture for the valve hole, the easier it will be to get the good air-tightness. Make sure the rubber valve base is pressed firmly against the tape. Thread the lock nut onto the valve and secure it against the rim.
Note: I used a Mavic O-ring that comes with the UST valve on the outside of the rim, underneath the lock nut (you should be able to get a small o-ring at any home improvement store). This stopped the slight amount of air bubbles coming from the valve.
Step 6 - Use soapy water on tire beads to assist with mounting the tire
Mount the tire. You will need a compressor and soapy water. Inflate the tire just to be sure the tire will hold pressure. This can be very easy to very difficult depending on the tire brand, model, and materials. A liberal use of soapy water and a good compressor can do wonders with inflating the tire (using soapy water on the rims and beads can lower friction and reduce the force needed to push the tire over the edge). Then deflate the tire and remove the valve core from the valve using the valve core key supplied with the valves.
Step 7 - Inject Caffélatex
Add the sealant. I take the sealant from the bottle using the Caffélatex injector, and then I inject it through the valve (note that I don't use any adapter on the injector tube, it's faster). If leaving the valve core in then use the adapter. (This is the stock photo)
Step 8 - Inflate, Shake, and Roll - It's Done
Insert the valve core back into the valve. Inflate, shake, and roll: it's done. Caffélatex will seal any porous areas in tire casing or the bead (as can be seen in the photo above). Use soapy water on any area that needs sealing. Shake, flip, let the wheel rest (on a bucket) and repeat if necessary.
Please note the tire pictured above is a Maxxis Igniter 29 X 2.1, which is a non-UST, TNT, TLR, or 2bliss tire. This is probably the main reason this seeping occurred. The tire was used for test purposes only and is being replaced by a 2Bliss style model as suggested in the Effetto Mariposa instruction manual.
You will need to adjust the pressure a couple of times (depending on how porous the tire is). Then the system will stabilize and you'll be ready to go!
The steps are noted below.
Images noted here.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157623430357848/detail/
WTB Laserdisc Trail 29 conversion step-by-step instruction process.
To be used on all WTB wheels with the large rectangular drop channel in the center of the rim.
Step 1 - Gather a Few Needed Items
(In this photo)
§ Weather seal Gray 3/8 inch wide X 3/16 inch thick X 17' roll ($2.50 at Lowe's)
§ Rubbing alcohol (blue spray bottle)
§ 12mm Stan's Yellow Tape
§ HD Caffe Tape Kit (HD kit (not the race kit!)
§ Caffélatex Bottle, Caffé Tubeless Valve, & Caffélatex Injector.
Step 2 - Prepare the Wheel
Prepare the wheel, removing the original rim-tape and cleaning the rim-bed with alcohol and a rag (a touch of sand-paper is a good idea if there's any sharp burr at the spoke-holes). Dry the rim-bed with a paper towel or micro fiber towel.
Step 3 - Apply Stan's 12 MM Yellow Tape
Install Stan's 12mm Yellow Tape.
Start 2 inches (5 cm) from the valve hole and stop 2 inches (5 cm) after the valve hole (after 2 complete wraps!). As Stan notes on his install video (notubes.com) the tape is flexible and won't necessarily tear so pull it down while pulling hard on it.
Wrap the rim 2 times with the yellow tape.
Step 4 - Apply Foam Weather seal
Install Weather seal 3/8 inch wide X 3/16 foam.
I had success starting halfway around the rim directly ACROSS from the valve hole.
Don't remove the white/paper backing at this point. Use the already sticky side to install.
Lightly pull the weatherseal around the entire rim.
Note: Not sure if it really matters were you start the weatherseal. I started the seal this way so when I poked the valve hole there was a will be have a complete circle in the foam
Step 5: Install Caffé Tape and poke hole
STOP! IMPORTANT!
Spray rubbing alcohol onto a clean cloth and carefully re-clean the inside of the rim an area especially on the shoulder of the rectangular drop channel (where the caffelatex tape will adhere to. The step will remove any oil residues left from the previous 2 steps. Then proceed with installing the caffe tape as outlined below.
* Remove the white/paper backing of the weatherseal; carefully avoiding touching the inside of the rim surface. *
Using the red Caffelatex tape start 2 inches (5 cm) from the valve hole and stop 2 inches (5 cm) after the valve hole. This will result in 4 inches (10 cm) overlap. The tape is flexible but won't stretch, so put it down while pulling hard on it: this will avoid wrinkles or air bubbles. If the tape doesn't stick well, stop and clean the rim with a paper towel or micro fiber towel. The tape has a good adhesive base, if it doesn't stick there's something wrong with the rim surface.
Make a round hole using a small screwdriver (the smaller the puncture for the valve hole, the easier it will be to get the good air-tightness when inserting the valve).
Step 6 - Use Tube for Perfect Tape Adhesion
(Do this step for the WTB Rims: NOT OPTIONAL)
Mount a tire with an inner-tube on the wheel and keep it at 50-60 psi for several hours. (Beer time! I let my wheels sit for 20 hours) Then remove the tube. This will help ensure perfect tape adhesion and easier tire inflation.
Note: The images below are after the wheel sat with a tube for 20 hours. As you can see there was little adhesion of the tape to the actual weatherseal but the shoulder connection is tight.
Step 5 - Insert the Valve
The smaller the puncture for the valve hole, the easier it will be to get the good air-tightness. Make sure the rubber valve base is pressed firmly against the tape. Thread the lock nut onto the valve and secure it against the rim.
Note: I used a Mavic O-ring that comes with the UST valve on the outside of the rim, underneath the lock nut (you should be able to get a small o-ring at any home improvement store). This stopped the slight amount of air bubbles coming from the valve.
Step 6 - Use soapy water on tire beads to assist with mounting the tire
Mount the tire. You will need a compressor and soapy water. Inflate the tire just to be sure the tire will hold pressure. This can be very easy to very difficult depending on the tire brand, model, and materials. A liberal use of soapy water and a good compressor can do wonders with inflating the tire (using soapy water on the rims and beads can lower friction and reduce the force needed to push the tire over the edge). Then deflate the tire and remove the valve core from the valve using the valve core key supplied with the valves.
Step 7 - Inject Caffélatex
Add the sealant. I take the sealant from the bottle using the Caffélatex injector, and then I inject it through the valve (note that I don't use any adapter on the injector tube, it's faster). If leaving the valve core in then use the adapter. (This is the stock photo)
Step 8 - Inflate, Shake, and Roll - It's Done
Insert the valve core back into the valve. Inflate, shake, and roll: it's done. Caffélatex will seal any porous areas in tire casing or the bead (as can be seen in the photo above). Use soapy water on any area that needs sealing. Shake, flip, let the wheel rest (on a bucket) and repeat if necessary.
Please note the tire pictured above is a Maxxis Igniter 29 X 2.1, which is a non-UST, TNT, TLR, or 2bliss tire. This is probably the main reason this seeping occurred. The tire was used for test purposes only and is being replaced by a 2Bliss style model as suggested in the Effetto Mariposa instruction manual.
You will need to adjust the pressure a couple of times (depending on how porous the tire is). Then the system will stabilize and you'll be ready to go!
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304 Posts
MTBOZ..
I never had any issues with burping or blowouts of any sort. The conversion was pretty good overall. I was getting some caffelatex in the eyelets and valve stem (because the fluid evenutally got under the tape) I ended up getting some Stan's rims and never looked back. The Mavic 819's are $ if you want to go UST....
I never had any issues with burping or blowouts of any sort. The conversion was pretty good overall. I was getting some caffelatex in the eyelets and valve stem (because the fluid evenutally got under the tape) I ended up getting some Stan's rims and never looked back. The Mavic 819's are $ if you want to go UST....
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Reviving an old thread here...
I have some of these wheels that I'm converting. For the weatherstrip/foam, is it the light fluffy stuff or the rubbery weatherstrip? I haven't found any reference to this on stans website.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
I have some of these wheels that I'm converting. For the weatherstrip/foam, is it the light fluffy stuff or the rubbery weatherstrip? I haven't found any reference to this on stans website.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
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I used basic weatherstrip/Foam but not sure if that is the best way after checking out a couple sites. See the comments on this youtube video.
*Tubeless Conversion* Caffelatex & WTB Trail 29 --Part 1 of 2-- - YouTube
Make sure to use a couple wraps of yellow tape UNDER the foam, in the channel.
*Tubeless Conversion* Caffelatex & WTB Trail 29 --Part 1 of 2-- - YouTube
Make sure to use a couple wraps of yellow tape UNDER the foam, in the channel.
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