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Discussion Starter #21
Oh I feel like a bottom feeder!

smilycook said:
Daryl you are welcome to my slime as I will never use it.Chris
Okay. As long as it seals goatheads and such that is the most frequent concern,
I would say... I'll pick it up and we can talk about the VQ too :)
 

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Back of the pack fat guy
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first choice

bikerx40 said:
Check out the new DT 5.1d rims.
Actually, that was my first choice. I'd heard about the DT specific rim strips too. I'm thinking a set of 5.1's laced to Hope Bulb hubs would be pretty bomber - perfect for the X-5. Larry built my current set of wheels, and I would definitely go back to him for another set.
 

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Stan's going down

Stan's has a few lawsuits pending from what I've heard recently from Kenda's technician. Darren Lightfield brought in a Kenda tire that had a bubbled sidewall so we called up Kenda to see what's up. He described the image without us saying much, and said that it's from running Stan's sealant. It's so caustic that it eats the sidewall of the tire. Thicker tires are more resistant to it, but who wants to take the chance? Apparently there are some people who have had the sidewalls blow out while riding because of this, and they're pissed.

As for myself, I dealt with that junk for about two months and decided it was pretty useless. I don't have tubeless rims, so I did the conversion using DT 6.1d rims. It sucked. My rear tire would burp air mid-turn, and that's with higher psi than I ran with tubes (defeating the purpose). I actually ran the front Maxxis 2.7 with Stan's conversion on the North Shore and Whistler for a week with no problems, then blew it off the rim entirely the following week on Bob's. Ivan's got tubeless rims and still burps air occasionally.

I've had good luck with Slime tubes around goatheads, and as an added benefit, I never have to pump up my tires pre-ride. I probably top them off once a month, which is not bad for riding 4x per week.

I think for XC race use, it's a good idea to keep the weight down. The Crossmax lineup is stout and makes a nice seal for tubeless. I've heard both good and bad, but I'm sticking with tubes.
 

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TRAIL KUBUKI CORNDOGGER
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bikemech23 said:
It's so caustic that it eats the sidewall of the tire. Thicker tires are more resistant to it, but who wants to take the chance? Apparently there are some people who have had the sidewalls blow out while riding because of this, and they're pissed.
Whoa that might explain something. I has a sidewall go bad on a Conti Vert UST that I attributed to an abrasion I might have picked. I haven't done the post-mortem on the tire so I haven't looked closely at the hole in the sidewall. But I was pissed that the tire only lasted about 400 miles and the non-UST Contis I've had before have always been durable. I had Stans as well in the Conti Diesel up front. I guess I should examine the Diesel and replace both USTs with Slime.

Thanks for the heads up. No arguments this time.
 

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interesting on the stan's causing such problems..

i run continental tires (ust) on mavic crossmax (ust)...i've been told i can use non-ust on my setup (to save weight). but, i'd rather have the stronger sidewall. the cost is basically the same for the conti ust vs. the conti non-ust. 5 bucks or so...i think? i even buy them at LBS because i can never find deals on them through mailorder,etc.

i've had this setup for 3 years about and i have not had any such problems. i did have a michelin sidewall blow out, but to me, the sidewall looked pretty weak to begin with. so, i'm leaning more towards typical wear and tear (albeit over a short life) versus stan's attributing to the problem.

so, ivan and bikemech....well, ivan more specifically i guess. with the aggressive style of riding you do. drops, etc....you never have problems with burping, etc...especially when you're running lower pressures? also, i would think you'd run wide(r) tires. what size tires do you run as tubeless, what brand, model?
 

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Sheepherder/Cat Herder
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Have you and Ian played with Bontrager Superjuice yet??? Wondered how that stuff was.

Damn...this sounds like a serious post....wait...I got one in the chute....ummm latte good.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Thank you, Brad

bikemech23 said:
Stan's has a few lawsuits pending from what I've heard recently from Kenda's technician. Darren Lightfield brought in a Kenda tire that had a bubbled sidewall so we called up Kenda to see what's up. He described the image without us saying much, and said that it's from running Stan's sealant. It's so caustic that it eats the sidewall of the tire. Thicker tires are more resistant to it, but who wants to take the chance? Apparently there are some people who have had the sidewalls blow out while riding because of this, and they're pissed.

As for myself, I dealt with that junk for about two months and decided it was pretty useless. I don't have tubeless rims, so I did the conversion using DT 6.1d rims. It sucked. My rear tire would burp air mid-turn, and that's with higher psi than I ran with tubes (defeating the purpose). I actually ran the front Maxxis 2.7 with Stan's conversion on the North Shore and Whistler for a week with no problems, then blew it off the rim entirely the following week on Bob's. Ivan's got tubeless rims and still burps air occasionally.

I've had good luck with Slime tubes around goatheads, and as an added benefit, I never have to pump up my tires pre-ride. I probably top them off once a month, which is not bad for riding 4x per week.

I think for XC race use, it's a good idea to keep the weight down. The Crossmax lineup is stout and makes a nice seal for tubeless. I've heard both good and bad, but I'm sticking with tubes.
I will stay away from Stans. Just need goathead protection anyway, really
 

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My setup........

garnetspur said:
so, ivan and bikemech....well, ivan more specifically i guess. with the aggressive style of riding you do. drops, etc....you never have problems with burping, etc...especially when you're running lower pressures? also, i would think you'd run wide(r) tires. what size tires do you run as tubeless, what brand, model?
The setup that I have had great luck with is a set of Mavic Deemax UST with Maxxis 2.5 Mobsters or 2.5 Minions. Both of these tires have the downhill casing, ie... superpigs. Each tire weighs in at a not to svelte 1350 grams. I'm certain I will wear out the tread on these tires before the Stan's gets through the sidewall. I have run these all over the place, including BC and had great luck. In fact, I never had mine burp the whole time I was there and I ran around 20-25 psi. I did burp these twice, once coming off the wall ride at Tamarack when I botched a landing and once when I dropped about 6 feet onto a rock laterally and it popped it off the rim. I hardly consider these occasions problematic.

HOWEVER, I also have a pair of Mavic 819's laced up to a rear XT and a front dimension with some single wall Maxxis 2.35 Minions and have had those pop off before. I'm not as confident with that set up. I think if your riding aggressively and you want to run tubeless then you should run UST tires or DH casings on UST rims for proper bead retention. It just makes more sense. Then you could use a noncaustic sealant like Hutchison or something like that.

Thats my setup and it works for my style of riding. I can't comment on how it works for more of an XC setup but I've heard good things.
 

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I'll say it again. Only go tubeless if you are commited to running actual UST tires. I know that you won't have any weight savings compared to regular tires converted with Stan's, but you will see the advanatage of greatly reduced flats and the weight will be about the same as standard tires with tubes.

In October, I spent 4 days riding with a bunch of mtbr guys down in Moab. On the Upper Porc system there were cactus thorns all along the trail. Between thorn punctures and pinch flats, we had to stop to change flats about 6 (or more) times on that trail along for the guys running tubes. Meanwhile, every single one of us running tubeless tires didn't have a single problem. Also, the guys running tubes were running their tires at 40-45psi to prevent pinch flats, where I was able to run 32-35 psi.

I know that I could run slime tubes, but I'm sold on actual UST tires/rims and won't ever go back. Of course, results may vary.
 

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Sheepherder/Cat Herder
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i have UST rims with Minion DH Supertacky 2.5 and Special Ed sealeant. I haven't had any bad [email protected] happen so far... other than smacking my botton trying to keep up with Vega and Denise earlier this year but that was with a different tire...hmmm...I said "smacked bottom"

I do prefer UST rim and UST tire setup and am in the process of changing over to UST from my other bikes...
 

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Discussion Starter #31
How do you think finals went?

Ivan the Terrible said:
The setup that I have had great luck with is a set of Mavic Deemax UST with Maxxis 2.5 Mobsters or 2.5 Minions. Both of these tires have the downhill casing, ie... superpigs. Each tire weighs in at a not to svelte 1350 grams. I'm certain I will wear out the tread on these tires before the Stan's gets through the sidewall. I have run these all over the place, including BC and had great luck. In fact, I never had mine burp the whole time I was there and I ran around 20-25 psi. I did burp these twice, once coming off the wall ride at Tamarack when I botched a landing and once when I dropped about 6 feet onto a rock laterally and it popped it off the rim. I hardly consider these occasions problematic.

HOWEVER, I also have a pair of Mavic 819's laced up to a rear XT and a front dimension with some single wall Maxxis 2.35 Minions and have had those pop off before. I'm not as confident with that set up. I think if your riding aggressively and you want to run tubeless then you should run UST tires or DH casings on UST rims for proper bead retention. It just makes more sense. Then you could use a noncaustic sealant like Hutchison or something like that.

Thats my setup and it works for my style of riding. I can't comment on how it works for more of an XC setup but I've heard good things.
off topic but my GF studying full time too and uhh, some stress involved.
Sounds like you're going to hit up some trails now!
 

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98...i wouldn't rule out stan's yet. this is the first i have ever heard of such. not denying what 23 says.... but, i have several friends that run stan's and have not had such problems. first hand, i can say that i have not.

the true benefit or tubeless is being able to run lower air pressures. also, i think that the ust allows the tire to actually use it's treads/knobs as they were designed. i.e. i think the tire works better alone rather than with a tube/tire setup. they just seem to roll better.

and lastly, you'll have goathead protection with the stan's. just an added bonus.
 

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My $.02

First of all, let me say that I’m a weight weenie and that I’m lighter than most folks out there (125lbs) so I can probably get away with things that heaviers folks can’t. I ran my XTR wheels (UST) with Stans and Mutano Raptors. Because the sidewalls are very thin and not to rigid on the Mutano’s, I burped the rear tire land from a cross up. The burp also caused a rupture on the sidewall of the rear tire that Stans couldn’t cope with. I replaced the rear tire with a tubed Python Air Light 2.0 (600 grams with tube) since I did not want to experience any more burping and kept the Stans treated Mutano up front. So far so good. I’ve only been running Stans since October however so the verdict is still out. The one thing I don’t like about it is that you typically need a compressor to get the bead on to the rim.

BTW- most folks would probably run the reverse of what I run since snakebites are more likely in the rear but I pinch flat maybe once every 2 years so it’s not much of an issue with me.
 

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i always here people saying they need an air compressor to get the bead in the rim.

i've never had to do this. just a regluar floor pump. i'll pump it up really high and spin it really good. i'll leave the high pressure for a little while, maybe ride around in the street for a minute...then, i release the air down to a "relatively" low air pressure for trail riding.

maybe it depends on the tires??? rims??

again, i have a crossmax ust wheelset
 

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Some rims...

specially like UST rims like the 819 have a deep valley in the center that the beads like to sit on which makes it hard to quickly pump air in using a floor pump since there is a substantial gap to let air out. The Stans video method of spanking the rubber (so to speak) works better for regular rims but not as well with UST. Regular rims do not have the valley and maybe easier to pump up with a floor pump (I have never converted a regular rim to Stans using the rim strips-I've always used UST wheels and Stans).
Of course, take what I say with a grain of salt, I'm a rookie at this Stans stuff...
 

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I used the Stan's conversion kit to make a wheelset tubeless. Front tire was aired up with a floor pump. Rear tire took a compressor. Rims for front and rear were identical. Go figure.

Never needed a compressor for my UST wheelset.

The blow doll...well...that was a different matter.

On a different note...no spackle today. no high water mark either. slow day...
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Uhhh, okay

Visicypher said:
I used the Stan's conversion kit to make a wheelset tubeless. Front tire was aired up with a floor pump. Rear tire took a compressor. Rims for front and rear were identical. Go figure.

Never needed a compressor for my UST wheelset.

The blow doll...well...that was a different matter.

On a different note...no spackle today. no high water mark either. slow day...
V,
I notice you are very, umm "creative" in your posts
You are one strange dude, Visicypher! :)
 

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garnetspur said:
i always here people saying they need an air compressor to get the bead in the rim.

i've never had to do this. just a regluar floor pump. i'll pump it up really high and spin it really good. i'll leave the high pressure for a little while, maybe ride around in the street for a minute...then, i release the air down to a "relatively" low air pressure for trail riding.

maybe it depends on the tires??? rims??

again, i have a crossmax ust wheelset
If you have a UST wheelset, then you wouldn't need a compressor. If you're trying to convert a non-UST wheelset to tubeless with Stans, then a compressor is preferred and sometimes absolutely necessary to get the thing to seal. Hence, idiots like me saying you would need a compressor.
 
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