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Rider and Wrench
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Alright I am finally pulling my head out of the sand and converting one of my wheelsets to Tubeless but I have a few questions and would like any advice to help me make it as smooth as possible-

Here is what I am starting with-

DT Swiss 4.2D's that I just purchased a stans kit for (I figured it would work fine VS the DT Swiss version?)

Schwalbe Alberts 2.25 Tubeless... anyone else like or hate these? (I have been running 2.10 Nevgals DTC with tubes and love them but the Tubeless versions don't come in DTC - my second favorites are the Schwalbe Noby Nics 2.25's but I could only find 2.1's in tubeless and Schwalbe's seem smaller than actual size so thus the Alberts- I considered Fat Alberts but figured that besides the extra weight they were overkill for XC) Is it worth running regular made for tube tires or do they "burb/bleed air easier?

Any tips beyond what Stan will tell me in the directions would be helpful-

Thanks
 

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you don't need UST tires, standard tires work fine with the tubeless kit and sealant. there are a few companies that NoTubes suggests NOT to use. check the notubes website for the recommended list.

standard tires are lighter and are often made from better compounds.
 

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Vaginatarian
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the last option IMO would be regular tires, I know people have had sucsess, but with UST & tubeless tires you get the special bead that holds the rim better
and tubless tire are pretty much the same weight as regular tires, ust are the heavier ones
 

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dan0 said:
the last option IMO would be regular tires, I know people have had sucsess, but with UST & tubeless tires you get the special bead that holds the rim better
and tubless tire are pretty much the same weight as regular tires, ust are the heavier ones
... UST & tubeless tire - same thing.

you thinking UST and TUBELESS READY? tubeless ready is generally a standard tire casing and tread with a tubeless bead. tubeless ready are lighter than UST, but similar weight to standard clincher.

show me a true UST tubeless tire that is the same weight as the standard version of the same tire.

and how does the bead hold the rim better? it is actually the other way around isn't it, the rim holds the bead, so you do need a strong bead in the tire.
 

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kevbikemad said:
... UST & tubeless tire - same thing.

you thinking UST and TUBELESS READY? tubeless ready is generally a standard tire casing and tread with a tubeless bead. tubeless ready are lighter than UST, but similar weight to standard clincher.

show me a true UST tubeless tire that is the same weight as the standard version of the same tire.

and how does the bead hold the rim better? it is actually the other way around isn't it, the rim holds the bead, so you do need a strong bead in the tire.
not true, Hutchinson has airlight, Tubeless light, tubeless ready,tubeless and USTand tubeless light abrasion res. versions of the Python, specialized sells 2bliss, bontrager TLR(tubless ready)
UST has a special bead that mates with the UST rim and a extra airtight layer of rubber
tubeless (and all the related versions ) are a regular tire with the UST style bead

I said that UST tires were heavier
bead holds the tire on the rim because the rim has the mating surface bead for the tire
you can still use regular tires on any rim but for optimum strength you want a UST or tubeless type bead on a ust or tubless type rim, the locking bead helps keep the tire from spinning on the rim and also helps against burping
I didnt say anything about strong or weak beads on tires , but I will, you want a strong bead regardless
 

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dan0 said:
not true, Hutchinson has airlight, Tubeless light, tubeless ready,tubeless and USTand tubeless light abrasion res. versions of the Python, specialized sells 2bliss, bontrager TLR(tubless ready)
UST has a special bead that mates with the UST rim and a extra airtight layer of rubber
tubeless (and all the related versions ) are a regular tire with the UST style bead

I said that UST tires were heavier
bead holds the tire on the rim because the rim has the mating surface bead for the tire
you can still use regular tires on any rim but for optimum strength you want a UST or tubeless type bead on a ust or tubless type rim, the locking bead helps keep the tire from spinning on the rim and also helps against burping
I didnt say anything about strong or weak beads on tires , but I will, you want a strong bead regardless
ok, i don't want to get into ALL the specifics of each brand or tire available...

just to clarify - Hutchinson Pythons

AirLight are standard - tube type tires
Tubeless Ready - are as explained earlier... basically a standard tire with UST bead
Tubeless Light - this is product name for Hutchinsons UST tire, when they say "LIGHT" they are talking that they have basically made it LIGHTER with a different compound.

go read for yourself
http://www.hutchinsontires.com/us/concepts.php#tlr

2 bliss from spec -
again - it is just what they call their tubeless ready tires
http://www.hutchinsontires.com/us/concepts.php#tlr

the point is many companies basically offer standard tubetype, tubeless ready (called many different things) and UST.

you are right tubeless (UST) the real ones, are designed to work with tubeless rims. the OP is not running tubeless rims, standard converted with Stans kit... So a UST tire may not perform any better for him, that is why I suggested a good standard tire in the first place.

and BTW - you said tubeless was the same weight - it still is NOT for most tires, hutchinson is close, with their tubeless light but it is not as light as a standard, and the UST bead may be no advantage.
 

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Vaginatarian
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kevbikemad said:
ok, i don't want to get into ALL the specifics of each brand or tire available...

just to clarify - Hutchinson Pythons

AirLight are standard - tube type tires
Tubeless Ready - are as explained earlier... basically a standard tire with UST bead
Tubeless Light - this is product name for Hutchinsons UST tire, when they say "LIGHT" they are talking that they have basically made it LIGHTER with a different compound.

go read for yourself
http://www.hutchinsontires.com/us/concepts.php#tlr

2 bliss from spec -
again - it is just what they call their tubeless ready tires
http://www.hutchinsontires.com/us/concepts.php#tlr

the point is many companies basically offer standard tubetype, tubeless ready (called many different things) and UST.

you are right tubeless (UST) the real ones, are designed to work with tubeless rims. the OP is not running tubeless rims, standard converted with Stans kit... So a UST tire may not perform any better for him, that is why I suggested a good standard tire in the first place.

and BTW - you said tubeless was the same weight - it still is NOT for most tires, hutchinson is close, with their tubeless light but it is not as light as a standard, and the UST bead may be no advantage.
DTswiss4.2D rims are UST compatible with their tubeless kit, to be ust compatible you need the hook for the bead as far as I know

You are right ust are made to work with tubeless rims and so are tubeless ready

If there were no difference between regular tires and tubeless ready than why make two?

again for the OP tubless ready would be my first choice
 

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Vaginatarian
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kevbikemad said:
ok, i don't want to get into ALL the specifics of each brand or tire available...

been looking for the actual rules for UST and came accross this
http://www.gotubeless.com/page/2/

notice the Bontrager section
Bontrager Tubeless Ready
Filed Under Articles | 1 Comment

What is Tubeless Ready?
Quick Facts:

Lightweight tires with a tubeless bead
100 grams lighter per tire then standard tubeless
50 grams lighter per tire then standard tire and tube combination
System integrates tire and sealant
Operates at low pressure for better traction

Information:

Tubeless Ready (TR) technology is the latest innovation from Keith Bontrager's garage. Designed to improve upon existing tubeless systems, Tubeless Ready tires offer a secure bead to rim interface like standard tubeless tires, but are 100 grams lighter per tire. They work in conjunction with sealant to provide a lightweight seal and flat protection that significantly improves performance.

Read more

DirtRag's Rimstrips Review
Filed Under Guides, Reviews | 2 Comments

Dirt Rag Magazine (a great mountain bike magazine btw) did an article a while back reviewing the different options in rimstrips. Plastic rimstrips are pretty essential to some tubeless setups, so it was a great read that shows what options are available.

Mavic plans its own Road Tubeless wheelset
Filed Under News | Leave a Comment

After posting about the Shimano/Hutchinson wheelset, I came across Mavic's work on a new road tubeless wheelset. I've heard that some riders rode these on this year's Tour de France.

Bicycling.com's article on the Mavic tubeless wheelset.

Tubeless comes Standard on Mongoose Canaan Team
Filed Under News | Leave a Comment

It's about time we start seeing more tubeless options on bikes sold by the major bike manufacturers. Well Pacific Cycle has outfitted their high-end Mongoose Canaan Team with weight-weenie Stan's NoTubes ZTR Olympic Disc rims on Ringle Dirt Flea hubs. Hotness.

Read more here: Mongoose Canaan Elite/Team review at Bicycling.com

Stans announces Road Tubeless Conversion Kit at Interbike
Filed Under News | 1 Comment

At Interbike 2007, Stan's introduces a tubeless conversion kit for clincher wheelsets. Basically it is the same setup as with his mountain bike tubeless conversion kit. Run a tubeless valve stem, 60 ml of Stan's sealant, and Hutchinson's new Fusion 2 Road Tubeless clincher on a solid rim wall wheel like the Mavic Kysrium or Fulcrum wheelsets. Some wheelset will require Stan's sealing tape. Stan says the key is the new non-stretching carbon fiber bead in the Fusion 2 tire. He cites better air retention and near-instant sealing repair as the main benefits. Reported by Cyclingnews.com

Keith Bontrager testifies for riding Tubeless
Filed Under Articles | Leave a Comment

I just found this surfing around and thought it was pretty amazing. Keith Bontrager, one of the most significant people to the mountain biking sport and industry, recently rode in the multi-stage endurance mtb race, TransScotland 2007. He gives his straight up look at everything related to the race, the food, and of course his equipment. You really need to read what he says about why he rides tubeless. It makes a lot of sense.

KB's testimony on cyclingnews.com

Road Tubeless: A look at Shimano Dura-Ace / Hutchinson combo
Filed Under Articles | 1 Comment

Outside magazine has an online feature about the new Shimano Dura-Ace wheelset that can run Hutchinson's new tubeless tire, the Fusion 2 Road Tubeless.

It sounds really good:

As expected, things were noticeably smoother. Cornering was also more stable than I'm used to, since the lower pressure leaves more tire in contact with the road. I would love to have had a power meter to see if the rolling resistance was really comparable to my normal setup. But in purely subjective terms, I didn't feel like I was working any harder. The wheels wind up quickly, hold their speed, and are race-day stiff, while the tires offer noticeable handling improvements.

At a claimed weight of 1,560 grams per pair, the 7801's are about 100 grams heavier than comparable standard wheels. But you more than make up for that by leaving the pump and spare tubes at home. The tires weigh about the same as a standard tire and tube combined, so weight there isn't a concern. The Fast Air cans are a necessity, though. Without them, the tires lose air in a matter of hours. But with them, you won't even have to think about your tires.

Read the rest of the article.

Ways to go tubeless: A Roadmap
Filed Under Guides | 17 Comments

The tubeless industry has literally exploded since Mavic's introduction of the UST rim in 1999. Conversions, sealants, UST-specific rims and wheelsets have given the tubeless rider more options than ever. With so many choices, here's a brief summary of what's available.

Tubeless specific wheelsets and wheelgoods

UST wheelsets - Mavic's Universal Standard for Tubeless (UST) design in their CrossMax, CrossTrail, CrossLand, and DeeMax wheelsets is probably one of the easiest ways to go tubeless. It's as simple as buying a new set of wheels. Tubeless use requires UST specific tires which are generally heavier than tubed tires. Thicker sidewalls and a strong bead allow these tires to be ridden without any sealant. Using tubed tires on these wheels can be done by putting in a tube or a conversion kit.

UST compatible rims - Mavic and several other rim manufacturers produce UST rims giving you the choice of going tubeless with your next wheel build. Like the above UST wheelsets these require UST tires.

Conversion Kits

DT Swiss tubeless conversion kit - allows you to convert a DT Swiss rim into a UST compatible rim. It requires the use of a sealant and a specialized rim strip.

Bontrager's Tubeless Ready - Keith Bontrager's at it again, bringing tubeless to the masses with Tubeless Ready line of products. This is a conversion kit with specialized rim strip and Super Juice tire sealant. The key difference is that Tubeless Ready wheels are designed with thinner sidewalls to save weight but requires the use of the Super Juice sealant.

Stan's NoTubes - Stan's conversion kits give riders a possibly inexpensive way to go tubeless by letting them use their existing wheels and tires. If the

wheels and tires are compatible. Fortunately, Stans is compatible with the widest set of rims and tire manufacturers. They have several models of rimstrips for a variety of rim designs including XC, Freeride, Downhill, and 29′er. Stan's can use standard tires with sealant. Stan also seems to be a weight weenie at heart with many weight saving rim, rimstrip and tire options.

Ghetto tubeless - A homemade tubeless conversion kit made of sacrificed BMX tubes and modeling latex for sealant. One of the cheapest ways to go tubeless but no manufacturer to complain to or get support from if things go wrong.

I also found that Hutchinson got the OK to label their 29er tubeless tire as UST even though it requires sealant?
apparently the standard isnt standard

"Last month, with the official stamp of approval from the UST testing lab, Hutchinson began manufacturing the first ever UST 29er Tubeless Ready mountain bike tires.

These official UST tires are all manufactured as Tubeless Ready so using latex is a must. Hutchinson recommends its Fast'Air latex aerosol to properly install these superlight UST tires."
 

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trail rat
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I setup some DT 4.1D with standard Nevegal DTC for a friend, in this thread. He has been beating them hard since then with no issues. He is a maniac, pedal like a madman, turn when something really big gets in the way, boom, wham, thunk. Stan's std kit, follow the instructions on their website. Soap the rimstrips, rim and tire beads. Solid.
 
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