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My cup runneth over
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just bought a pair of Blue Grooves (dual compound for the back) and cannot get them to seal on the rims when running tubeless.

A little history: I ran Stan's for two years with all kinds of tires and only once (out of maybe 40 tries!) got them to seal with a floor pump. I switched to the 20 inch tube tubeless arrangement at the end of last year with some Continental vertical pros and they seal easily (every time!) with a floor pump - probably found a good tire/rim (DT Swiss) combo.

Anyway, I finally used CO2 (bad!) to inflate the BGs and they still lost air like crazy (consistantly all around the rim). Here's the question: The BGs have |||||||||||| (can't think what to call them) along the tire right where they connect to the rim and I wonder if air is escaping between each |. Very frustrating since I wanted to benefit from the Stick-E. I have ended up putting a tube back in. Anyone else have this or a solution?

Thank you.
 

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Tough Sealing BGs

Squeak's system works, so check it out.

I've found the BGs are pretty tough to seal, but once they do, what a sweet tire!

Once I get them sealed up to the point of only losing around 10 psi in an hour or so, the simplest final step I've found is to just go for a ride. Nothing seals 'em up better, or quicker, but bring a little pump for one or two quick squirts!

FWIW, though Stan doesn't recommend Panaracer tires, by far the easiest tire I have ever converted to tubeless is a Fire 2.4 FR. Mounted it, spun it, hasn't lost a pound in three days! I think his non-rec for Panaracers is due to the Fire XC just having a little too thin a carcass to run without a tube. Definitely no a problem for the FR version of the Fire!
 

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My cup runneth over
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Since I have inflated the BG on the rear with a tube, I will try again after a few days to see if the BG holds its shape better now. Worst air loss I have ever seen with a tubeless set up...
 

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NoTubes.com
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rmac said:
Just bought a pair of Blue Grooves (dual compound for the back) and cannot get them to seal on the rims when running tubeless.

A little history: I ran Stan's for two years with all kinds of tires and only once (out of maybe 40 tries!) got them to seal with a floor pump. I switched to the 20 inch tube tubeless arrangement at the end of last year with some Continental vertical pros and they seal easily (every time!) with a floor pump - probably found a good tire/rim (DT Swiss) combo.

Anyway, I finally used CO2 (bad!) to inflate the BGs and they still lost air like crazy (consistantly all around the rim). Here's the question: The BGs have |||||||||||| (can't think what to call them) along the tire right where they connect to the rim and I wonder if air is escaping between each |. Very frustrating since I wanted to benefit from the Stick-E. I have ended up putting a tube back in. Anyone else have this or a solution?

Thank you.
I ran some Blue Grooves on d321 and f219 rims last year (2.5 front, 2.3 rear) and was able to install them rather easily. The key was to use some soap and water on the bead and inflate them without sealant, yes I use a floor pump. Once I saw where the biggest leaks were, I added the sealant and re-inflated. I slosh the sealant around, much like Squeak does to really coat the sidewalls then take them for a little spin around the house. Put a little soapy water on the sidewalls, checking for leaks and slosh the sealant as needed. No big deal at all and no slower than installing regular tires with tubes.

You are right about the little bead grooves though. Kenda is supposedly addressing this issue for next year's models so we'll see if it goes away.
 

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My cup runneth over
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Mike B. said:
I ran some Blue Grooves on d321 and f219 rims last year (2.5 front, 2.3 rear) and was able to install them rather easily. The key was to use some soap and water on the bead and inflate them without sealant, yes I use a floor pump. Once I saw where the biggest leaks were, I added the sealant and re-inflated. I slosh the sealant around, much like Squeak does to really coat the sidewalls then take them for a little spin around the house. Put a little soapy water on the sidewalls, checking for leaks and slosh the sealant as needed. No big deal at all and no slower than installing regular tires with tubes.

You are right about the little bead grooves though. Kenda is supposedly addressing this issue for next year's models so we'll see if it goes away.
I may have just not put enough sealant in. I will try again later this week. Did it seem like the sealant took care of the bead grooves when sloshed around?

Thank you.
 

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Same as Squeeky...you have to add enough juice AND slosh those babys around and set them flat to let the juice sink into the grooves.

BTW: I had tried unsuccessfully for a couple of weeks following the same procedure. Frustrated, I started all over again....took off the tire, rims strip, rim tape, cleaned everything off for good measure...used two layers of strapping tape (single track rim), re-did the rim strip and I can't stress this point enough...make sure that the rim strip is uniform around the rim and that it goes all the way across the rim and snugs up to the sides. I found that most of the leaks were coming from places on the rim where the rim strip didn't hit the rim side-wall all the way (not even sure why that would be an issue). Pre-seat the bead by inflating without goop in it...use plenty of soap bubbles (not the water, just the bubbles) and use an air compressor if possible. After you seat the bead, deflate, pull out a portion of the tire and dump in plenty of stans (I use 2.5-3 cups actually) and re-inflate. Do the slosh technique (as explained by squeek and stan on his site) and lay the wheel parallel to the ground (trash can or bucket works good) and let the sealant fall into the gaps.

Now, if that still doesn't get all of the leaks to stop (which didn't really get all of mine), try pressing the side of the tire, close to the rim, with your thumb or tire lever to lets some air "burp" out. This will force some sealant into the gaps and help seal. This is tricky since you have to position the tire so that there is some sealant in the area.

Finally, although stan says not to, I found that actually riding the bike will help slosh enough sealant into the gaps to stop the leaks. You may have to inflate the tires over again for a few days but eventually they sealed up.

FB
 

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My cup runneth over
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
FatB said:
Same as Squeeky...you have to add enough juice AND slosh those babys around and set them flat to let the juice sink into the grooves.

BTW: I had tried unsuccessfully for a couple of weeks following the same procedure. Frustrated, I started all over again....took off the tire, rims strip, rim tape, cleaned everything off for good measure...used two layers of strapping tape (single track rim), re-did the rim strip and I can't stress this point enough...make sure that the rim strip is uniform around the rim and that it goes all the way across the rim and snugs up to the sides. I found that most of the leaks were coming from places on the rim where the rim strip didn't hit the rim side-wall all the way (not even sure why that would be an issue). Pre-seat the bead by inflating without goop in it...use plenty of soap bubbles (not the water, just the bubbles) and use an air compressor if possible. After you seat the bead, deflate, pull out a portion of the tire and dump in plenty of stans (I use 2.5-3 cups actually) and re-inflate. Do the slosh technique (as explained by squeek and stan on his site) and lay the wheel parallel to the ground (trash can or bucket works good) and let the sealant fall into the gaps.

Now, if that still doesn't get all of the leaks to stop (which didn't really get all of mine), try pressing the side of the tire, close to the rim, with your thumb or tire lever to lets some air "burp" out. This will force some sealant into the gaps and help seal. This is tricky since you have to position the tire so that there is some sealant in the area.

Finally, although stan says not to, I found that actually riding the bike will help slosh enough sealant into the gaps to stop the leaks. You may have to inflate the tires over again for a few days but eventually they sealed up.

FB
That is A LOT OF TROUBLE!!!! Doing exactly this right now :( . Tire is sitting over a bucket right now and has been shaken, spun and stirred for a good 30 minutes already. I rode it 12 miles Tuesday with a tube in the hopes of 'shaping' the tire and getting an easy inflation. No difference. I really like the tire but this much trouble is testing its worth. Especially when my Vertical Pro inflates immediately on 2 or 3 pumps. Aaaaaahhhhh! :)
 

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Sealing the Blue Groove

I've had good luck with stubborn sealing BGs by using straight Dawn dishwashing soap on the bead instead of a soapy water/bubbles solution. I just put it on using an old toothbrush. My theoryis that the alkaline pH of the soap may "melt" the rubber just a bit, allowing those tires with the pesky /////////// things to seal up better.

BTW, I just completed the maiden voyage on a newly mounted Fire FR 2.4. I like it more than the BG (holds better in loose stuff), and it was the easiest tire I've ever converted to tubeless by far. It almost seems like a tubeless tire. When I first mounted it without the sealant, it held good pressure for almost an hour (business call intervened--priorities I guess!).

Just one ride, so take it for what it's worth.
 

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I'm confused, are we talking about UST versions or standard version BG's.

Been using BG's and karma's for a while and have never had much if any success with a Stans setup. Happy with tubes now. Great tyres but Stans introduces reliability issues!
 

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My cup runneth over
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
For me these are non-UST rims and and non-UST tires and I am not using Stan’s rim strips but the split 20 inch tube. I actually got the BG to seal last night and it was a pain!!!! I couldn’t get it inflated with a floor pump and I must have spent two hours getting it to seal. Followed FatB and Squeaks’ advice – shook it mounted and rode it, shook it again, laid it flat for an hour or two and it is finally sealed. I have sealed around 10 different tires over the last 3 years and this was by far the most difficult.
 

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Kendas are hard to seal but be patient

I have never had a tire give me a harder time than Kendas when trying to seal them. I used two full scoops of stans and layed the wheel down on its side and rotated it once every 5 minutes untill I had the tire sealed. I found that letting the stans pool in one spot for a long time was the only way I could I could seal it. Now that is done it holds air better than any tire I did in the past. I also recomend putting a TUBE in the tire and inflating it to the max recomended psi and letting it sit over night before you atempt to seal it tubles or you might get a wooble in the tire.

I hope that helps

JHB
 

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rmac said:
That is A LOT OF TROUBLE!!!! Doing exactly this right now :( . Tire is sitting over a bucket right now and has been shaken, spun and stirred for a good 30 minutes already. I rode it 12 miles Tuesday with a tube in the hopes of 'shaping' the tire and getting an easy inflation. No difference. I really like the tire but this much trouble is testing its worth. Especially when my Vertical Pro inflates immediately on 2 or 3 pumps. Aaaaaahhhhh! :)
I hear ya and I was ready to throw in the towel on these tires, but I finally got them to seal up and they are holding up well. They are great tires btw, tubless or not!

FB
 

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I don't know if this will work...

We used to use a quick shot of non-chlorinated brake cleaner on our motorcycle tires to help lube and soften them when they were tight. I softens the rubber for a few seconds. DO NOT do use a lot, as it may ruin it. Also, we use it to install or remove rubber grips, they slip right on or off and stay put.

AGAIN, I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS WILL WORK and would find out if anyone else had results.

YMMV
 

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Kendas and Olympics

I realize that you are talking about converted rims, but thought this could be of help to others that like the Kendas.

I mounted some standard 2.1 Nevs and BGs onto the Stan's Olympic rims. No strip, only yellow tape over spoke holes. They went on easily and aired up with a comp. and no goop first try. After putting in 2 scoops of goop and reinflating, the BG had a few leaks at the llllllll things. Sloshed around and laid on a bucket, stopped spitting. Today they have lost air but aired up to 40 psi and seem to be holding. The Nevs aired up easily and never spit any goop out. They seem to have only lost a few psi overnight.

I have been wanting to try these tires for a while now. I was a little surprised that the BG is a little smaller than the Nev. I might get a 2.3 BG for the front.
 
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