I am so sorry to have to post this, because I was hoping for no more trouble with my bike. I need some info by tomorrow, if anyone can help. I just finished getting my Hollowpoint Sport ('03 but just purchased new) dialed in. The bike feels and performs great. This morning (miles from home) I was coming off of a couple hundred meters of downhill fire road and began an incline. I was in middle chainring and 24 on the back, and shifted to small chainring, spinning, no heavy load. My chain came off on the inside front and within 1/2 a pedal rotation passed the inner swing arm pivot (w/brass bolt), doubled on itself, and cut probably 2mm into my bottom bracket shell. Never seen anything like that before. Because the gap between the inner chainring and shell is so tight I spent almost an hour (after separating the chain) carefully extracting the chain from between the shell and inner chainring (it sure didn't come out as easy as it went in!). The damage was pretty severe, but I couldn't tell how close it cut to the inner threads of the shell. I took it to the shop where I bought it (Supergo Santa Monica) and they will evaluate it tomorrow morning. I checked two Hollowpoints ('04s) on the floor and their gap is tighter: if the chain walks off on the inside it looks like it would just lay on top of the swingarm. Was this a design issue in the '03s? I've owned several bikes (own 3 now, including the Iron Horse) and I've never seen a situation where the chain can become so hopelessly trapped and locked in. Usually you just pull it up onto the chainring and keep going, losing a little paint. I'm driving to Utah Monday morning for a couple of days biking (only real vacation this year) and I guess I may be f*ck*d. The service dept. is supposed to call tomorrow morning with an evaluation. Has this happened with anyone's Hollowpoints? If Todd or Bruce sees this, what do you suggest I do? Crankset and chain are stock.
Trouble!
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Ps
The reason I'm asking if anyone has had this happen is that I'm trying to figure out if other '03s have this problem. Given that the bike was bought 33 days ago I assume I'm covered by someone's warranty (IHBC or Supergo). What I'm worried about is that it will be judged as "cosmetic" and then suffer catastrophic failure later, like when I'm carving down a hill (the chain was forced against the downtube / bottom bracket shell junction, and the deepest damage is there, right under the weld). If I hadn't left the bike at the shop I would post a picture. Cut up the brass bolt a bit, too. I've had plenty of chainsuck on my bikes and am used to a little gouging, but this damage is deeper.
The reason I'm asking if anyone has had this happen is that I'm trying to figure out if other '03s have this problem. Given that the bike was bought 33 days ago I assume I'm covered by someone's warranty (IHBC or Supergo). What I'm worried about is that it will be judged as "cosmetic" and then suffer catastrophic failure later, like when I'm carving down a hill (the chain was forced against the downtube / bottom bracket shell junction, and the deepest damage is there, right under the weld). If I hadn't left the bike at the shop I would post a picture. Cut up the brass bolt a bit, too. I've had plenty of chainsuck on my bikes and am used to a little gouging, but this damage is deeper.
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Dusty,
It's pretty difficult to grasp how severe the damage is without a picture. From what you describe I'm not inclined to think it's anything out of the ordinary, and that it is the result of a simple front derailleur adjustment issue. I'd expect this adjustment to be the responsibility of the bike shop or whoever performed final assembly on the bike. Not to single out Supergo; a lot of shops slack in this department, although my short list includes Supergo, Performance, and my own closest LBS.
As a preventative measure and for future reference, when shifted into the granny ring, the inside plate of the derailleur cage should be within a hair's width of the chain when it's running on the largest cog. This is best to adjust with the Low limit screw only, with the derailleur cable detached from the anchor bolt.
It is unfortunate that I have grown accustom to double checking critical bolt torques, derailleur and brake adjustments on new bikes, which is technically the responsibility of the final assembler even though they come more-or-less ready to go out of the box. My '01 NRS with the bottom bracket *hand tight* still takes the cake -- why should any shop be expected to pull the crank just to check that? I have also experienced Supergo Mountain View's "free tune-up" firsthand on my sister's new Hollowpoint, and the drivetrain came out of there more f-'d up than it was going in. It's wrong of me to lump all Supergo mechanics in the same boat, but I have no respect for the shop for letting crap like that out the door, even moreso when it takes all of 5 or 10 minutes for me to make it perfect.
Sorry for turning this into my rant. I'd take your issue up with Supergo if you really feel the damage is more than skin deep, but I wouldn't expect much from them, other than them telling you it's normal wear and tear.
It's pretty difficult to grasp how severe the damage is without a picture. From what you describe I'm not inclined to think it's anything out of the ordinary, and that it is the result of a simple front derailleur adjustment issue. I'd expect this adjustment to be the responsibility of the bike shop or whoever performed final assembly on the bike. Not to single out Supergo; a lot of shops slack in this department, although my short list includes Supergo, Performance, and my own closest LBS.
As a preventative measure and for future reference, when shifted into the granny ring, the inside plate of the derailleur cage should be within a hair's width of the chain when it's running on the largest cog. This is best to adjust with the Low limit screw only, with the derailleur cable detached from the anchor bolt.
It is unfortunate that I have grown accustom to double checking critical bolt torques, derailleur and brake adjustments on new bikes, which is technically the responsibility of the final assembler even though they come more-or-less ready to go out of the box. My '01 NRS with the bottom bracket *hand tight* still takes the cake -- why should any shop be expected to pull the crank just to check that? I have also experienced Supergo Mountain View's "free tune-up" firsthand on my sister's new Hollowpoint, and the drivetrain came out of there more f-'d up than it was going in. It's wrong of me to lump all Supergo mechanics in the same boat, but I have no respect for the shop for letting crap like that out the door, even moreso when it takes all of 5 or 10 minutes for me to make it perfect.
Sorry for turning this into my rant. I'd take your issue up with Supergo if you really feel the damage is more than skin deep, but I wouldn't expect much from them, other than them telling you it's normal wear and tear.
Got it back.
Supergo put a new chain on and actually painted the damages area with touch-up paint. (That was a little unexpected.) They admitted that it looked bad, but pointed out that the deepest cutting was into the weld itself. I agree that this happens a lot, Nate, but I've had other chains gouge the shell or stays and this is far deeper. Maybe I'll take a picture when I can, but the touch-up paint will make it difficult to see just how deep it is. The shell is about 2mm thick there, so had the deepest part been in the tube and not the weld I would have cut through enough to significantly weaken the shell. Hopefully that's not the case. And you're absolutely right about the 30-day tune-up. I work on my own bikes, but since one of my complaints was a loose bottom bracket and I don't yet have the crank puller attachment for the ISIS BB I figured I'd take it back and let them all the little adjustments. Generally my service experience at Supergo SM has been great, but the service manager is on vacation for three weeks and I guess the 30-day just wasn't done very carefully. Learned that lesson! One of the shop guys did say that this is a known problem. Even on the '04s, the chain rarely drops all the way down if it comes off the small chainring, but if it does it's a huge hassle and if, like me, you're spinning when it happens it's bad because the fit is so tight. I'll take it out tomorrow and hopefully it will be fine. They did say that they would stand behind it if it fails in the near future.
Supergo put a new chain on and actually painted the damages area with touch-up paint. (That was a little unexpected.) They admitted that it looked bad, but pointed out that the deepest cutting was into the weld itself. I agree that this happens a lot, Nate, but I've had other chains gouge the shell or stays and this is far deeper. Maybe I'll take a picture when I can, but the touch-up paint will make it difficult to see just how deep it is. The shell is about 2mm thick there, so had the deepest part been in the tube and not the weld I would have cut through enough to significantly weaken the shell. Hopefully that's not the case. And you're absolutely right about the 30-day tune-up. I work on my own bikes, but since one of my complaints was a loose bottom bracket and I don't yet have the crank puller attachment for the ISIS BB I figured I'd take it back and let them all the little adjustments. Generally my service experience at Supergo SM has been great, but the service manager is on vacation for three weeks and I guess the 30-day just wasn't done very carefully. Learned that lesson! One of the shop guys did say that this is a known problem. Even on the '04s, the chain rarely drops all the way down if it comes off the small chainring, but if it does it's a huge hassle and if, like me, you're spinning when it happens it's bad because the fit is so tight. I'll take it out tomorrow and hopefully it will be fine. They did say that they would stand behind it if it fails in the near future.
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Hey Dude, I had the same problem with my Tracer. Every time the chain would come off the front it would get trapped in the same spot. After going through several chains I came up with an idea. What I did is went to home depot and picked up a metal hose clamp that was large enough to fit around the bottom bracket shell. I installed it on the drive side of the shell to close the gap. Now when the chain falls down there it just rides on the clamp and cant get caught. Its not really visible and works great. If you need I can post a pic.
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Please Post the Pic
I'd like to see how you did that. Please post a pic if you have it.milhouse said:
Thanks, that sounds like it would work. Just curious: if you pull the chain off the small chainring is the gap on your tracer big enough to let it drop through, or does it need pedaling force behind it? I can't be sure (because I didn't measure it oringinally) but I think Supergo tweaked it a bit and made the gap smaller. It looks like the BB was removed and reinstalled and the brass pivot bolt (bottom) has been moved (the gouges aren't oriented the same direction).
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It's a little dirty from the last ride and I didn't want to wipe off too much dirt in my home. It may not work with all frames but it sure does on mine. Too bad someone doesn't design and market a way to put a guide so that the chain could drop below the 3rd ring.Moo Shoo Pork said:
Dusty: It has to be pedaled about a quarter crank or more and then it is jammed in there and sometimes it bends the chain. Otherwise I bend it ripping it out wile I'm getting attacked by mosquitoes.
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KeWL!
I haven't had that problem, but I'm gonna use that idea. Excellent smarts my friend! ~eyeguy
I haven't had that problem, but I'm gonna use that idea. Excellent smarts my friend! ~eyeguy
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n-Gear Jump Stop?ska todd said:
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Great Idea and Simple Too!
Thanks for the ics. As I have not had that problem, I believe that prevention is the best medicine. YOur idea is simple and looks to be effective. Gonna go to Home Depot this weekend and see if I can do the same for both of my bikes. Thanks Again!milhouse said:It's a little dirty from the last ride and I didn't want to wipe off too much dirt in my home. It may not work with all frames but it sure does on mine. Too bad someone doesn't design and market a way to put a guide so that the chain could drop below the 3rd ring.
Dusty: It has to be pedaled about a quarter crank or more and then it is jammed in there and sometimes it bends the chain. Otherwise I bend it ripping it out wile I'm getting attacked by mosquitoes.
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