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I ride bikes
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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys. I picked up a 2015 Smuggler off of CL for a good deal. My HD3 is a bit overkill for many of my rides and my Superfly HT isnt quite enough for some of the terrain, so I was looking for a short travel All Mountain bike and this guy fit the bill. Obviously this isn't a weight weenie bike, but I want to drop a little weight off(maybe get close to what the HD3 weighs).
2015 Transition Smuggler Lg frame, Monarch RT3 Debonair ~7lbs ish
130mm Pike RC
Reverb stealth 125mm
DT swiss XM1900 ~1940g
Hans Dampf 2.35 Front~ 860g/ Nobby Nic 2.35 rear 765g
Shimano Deore brakeset with Ice tech rotors 180/160
Race face turbine bars 725 wide ~255g, and stem ~163g
Selle italia SLR test saddle ~150g
Race face ride crankset 1x ~ 800g
Race face BB ~140g
Shimano Deore 10s shifter
Shimano Zee rear der
Sram PG1020 cassette 11-36t
Grips TLD ODI ~ 118g


Upcoming upgrades:
Tubeless ~not sure
X1 Carbon Eagle crankset with wolftooth 30t DM ring ~550g (250g)
Renthal Fatbar Carbon 200g -Installed (50g)
renthal apex stem 130g - installed (33g)
Sram GXP BB ~not sure

I know I am missing stuff. Looking for input from you wonderful gentlemen


 

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Braille Riding Instructor
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1,146 Posts
Your hound seems to be reproaching you.

Looking over your spec list, I'd start with the wheels and cassette. Tubeless will cut some weight (plus other benefits, imo), but you might not be keen on that.

Slimmer tires would shave more grams, but there are tradeoffs to consider there.

Good choice with the carbon crank and bars, btw. I went that route last season (RaceFace Next SL G4 and Easton Haven) and it seems to be money well spent.
 

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I ride bikes
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Discussion Starter #3
Your hound seems to be reproaching you.

Looking over your spec list, I'd start with the wheels and cassette. Tubeless will cut some weight (plus other benefits, imo), but you might not be keen on that.

Slimmer tires would shave more grams, but there are tradeoffs to consider there.

Good choice with the carbon crank and bars, btw. I went that route last season (RaceFace Next SL G4 and Easton Haven) and it seems to be money well spent.
Jackson (my dog) is pissed that he hasn't had much trail time. We have a foot of snow and a new baby boy.
I got the crankset as a new take-off on ebay for $150. Bars and stem I had laying around.
I run all my bikes tubeless. Not sure why anyone still runs tubes these days.

I am researching what cassette to go with. The current cassette must weigh 450g. I might need a wider range than 11-36t but I am not sure yet.

The wheels are the obvious weights on the bike. Currently saving up for a nice set. Looking at the American Classic Race set that is on sale for $500 right now. 1459g. any other options?
 

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Braille Riding Instructor
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1,146 Posts
Congrats on the boy! Jackson seems like a good uncle/big brother. Great name, too.

You got that crank for a steal.

If you go for a wide-range cassette, I recommend picking up a newer RD (a la the Shimano thousand-series mechs) because they can accommodate the extra teeth and extreme body angles without after-market add-ons (Goatlinks, RADr cages, B screws on steroids, etc.). You can use an 11-speed derailleur with a 10-speed cassette and shifter.

I wish I could give you meaningful feedback on AC wheels, but the set of brand new 29.2mm ID Wide Lightnings that are resting next to me are not yet on my bike, and even if they were, it will be at least a couple of more weeks before the trails are dry enough to ride.

I looked at the Race set (in 650b) as they are super light, but I opted for the wider, stiffer, more trail-oriented Lightnings instead. These are still extremely light, particularly for alloy. I believe a set in 29" runs about 1,580g? The consequence is the sidewalls are thin, so if you like to ping off rocks, you might steer clear.
 

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Congrats on the boy! Jackson seems like a good uncle/big brother. Great name, too.

You got that crank for a steal.

If you go for a wide-range cassette, I recommend picking up a newer RD (a la the Shimano thousand-series mechs) because they can accommodate the extra teeth and extreme body angles without after-market add-ons (Goatlinks, RADr cages, B screws on steroids, etc.). You can use an 11-speed derailleur with a 10-speed cassette and shifter.

I wish I could give you meaningful feedback on AC wheels, but the set of brand new 29.2mm ID Wide Lightnings that are resting next to me are not yet on my bike, and even if they were, it will be at least a couple of more weeks before the trails are dry enough to ride.

I looked at the Race set (in 650b) as they are super light, but I opted for the wider, stiffer, more trail-oriented Lightnings instead. These are still extremely light, particularly for alloy. I believe a set in 29" runs about 1,580g? The consequence is the sidewalls are thin, so if you like to ping off rocks, you might steer clear.
^^this a 8000 or 9000 rear derailleur can handle 46 tooth cassette and the Garbaruk 11-45 10speed is light and mostly [email protected] anything close to its weight or lower is probably a race only part.
 

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Bikes in jeans
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You could drop another 100g off the crank with the RF Next SL G4.

Garbaruk: 11-45T Cassette - Garbaruk Lightweight Components

They're supposed to be coming out with an 11 speed really soon as well, and it's supposed to have a 11-50 option. These aren't cheap, but they're lighter than SRAM and way lighter than Shimano, while still using a normal cassette interface.

You could go with ESI grips, replace all the bolts with ti, there's enough on this bike to save a bit.

Instead of renthal, Easton SC90 SL or Raceface Next save a bit more.

Get a 1500g wheelset, this would be more noticeable than everything else listed combined.
 

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Elitest thrill junkie
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I wouldn't waste money on the 10spd garbuk, get a good 11spd derailleur like XTR (223g) and a good 11spd cassette. There are a few better options now. If your DT hubs are star-ratchet drive, you could use the 1up freehub carrier with the Hope cassette (268g for 11-40t) or the SRAM 11spd cassettes, of which X01 is about the best deal, or the new E13 cassette. XTR isn't bad, but at 320g or so for the 11-40 it's not super light. But these are the cassettes you'll be able to pick up for years to come. Investing into an expensive 10spd cassette is not really worth it IMO, money better spent on 11spd components.

Although I have XX1 cranks on my AM bike that I have beat to hell since 2013ish, the Next are significantly lighter (and stiffer iMO). They hold up great to AM riding for almost everyone and are speced on all kinds of AM bikes as stock equipment.
 

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Elitest thrill junkie
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And I would agree that wheels is probably the best place to start, but you simply have a lot of heavy stuff on that bike that can be switched out. It'll be massively expensive to do it all obviously. The most bang for the buck will be wheels, crankset and bars, and grips, then drivetrain, which will be more expensive to drop weight, but has the added benefit of the 11spd upgrade at the same time. Things like the Hope or Sram 11spd cassettes around 268g are pretty damn light and offer a good amount of weight savings compared to shimano or low end sram cassettes, but expensive.
 

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I ride bikes
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Discussion Starter #9
Congrats on the boy! Jackson seems like a good uncle/big brother. Great name, too.

You got that crank for a steal.

If you go for a wide-range cassette, I recommend picking up a newer RD (a la the Shimano thousand-series mechs) because they can accommodate the extra teeth and extreme body angles without after-market add-ons (Goatlinks, RADr cages, B screws on steroids, etc.). You can use an 11-speed derailleur with a 10-speed cassette and shifter.

I wish I could give you meaningful feedback on AC wheels, but the set of brand new 29.2mm ID Wide Lightnings that are resting next to me are not yet on my bike, and even if they were, it will be at least a couple of more weeks before the trails are dry enough to ride.

I looked at the Race set (in 650b) as they are super light, but I opted for the wider, stiffer, more trail-oriented Lightnings instead. These are still extremely light, particularly for alloy. I believe a set in 29" runs about 1,580g? The consequence is the sidewalls are thin, so if you like to ping off rocks, you might steer clear.
I did get the crank for a steal. My buddy is giving me a Wolftooth 30t dm ring for it because the sram ring on it is steel. It should probably drop 60g off the weight.

I am seriously debating getting the Easton Heist 24 wheelset off of crc for $280 right now. it would only drop about 200g but would also be a slightly wider rim. Not sure if I trust easton hubs though.
 

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Braille Riding Instructor
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Do you run your HD3 in 29"? (I think I read somewhere that they can fit 27.5+.)

My thinking--$280 for a relatively light and sturdy wheelset is a bargain, and having extras never hurts.

Easton Hubs are notorious. Buddy rode factory built EA90s in 26" for years and had to have them replaced/warranteed, but his cost a lot more than $280 at the time. That he stored his bike in shed year round without climate control probably didn't help, however.

Still wish I could give you feedback on the Wide Lightnings but everything is soaked and more snow is on the way. Some folks don't like AC hubs (we're all engagement freaks these days), but most reviews suggest the wheelset is surprisingly stiff and sturdy despite the lightness.
 

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I ride bikes
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Discussion Starter #11
You could drop another 100g off the crank with the RF Next SL G4.

Garbaruk: 11-45T Cassette - Garbaruk Lightweight Components

They're supposed to be coming out with an 11 speed really soon as well, and it's supposed to have a 11-50 option. These aren't cheap, but they're lighter than SRAM and way lighter than Shimano, while still using a normal cassette interface.

You could go with ESI grips, replace all the bolts with ti, there's enough on this bike to save a bit.

Instead of renthal, Easton SC90 SL or Raceface Next save a bit more.

Get a 1500g wheelset, this would be more noticeable than everything else listed combined.
The Garbaruk is something that I haven't really looked into. That looks really nice. I am not sure I need anything bigger than a 42t. I might be okay with a 36t.

I have a pair of wolftooth fat paw grips that I might try out on this. though they are 100g. I love ESI grips though.

Those other bars are lighter, but they are also too narrow. I need 760+mm.
 

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I ride bikes
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Discussion Starter #12
Do you run your HD3 in 29"? (I think I read somewhere that they can fit 27.5+.)

My thinking--$280 for a relatively light and sturdy wheelset is a bargain, and having extras never hurts.

Easton Hubs are notorious. Buddy rode factory built EA90s in 26" for years and had to have them replaced/warranteed, but his cost a lot more than $280 at the time. That he stored his bike in shed year round without climate control probably didn't help, however.

Still wish I could give you feedback on the Wide Lightnings but everything is soaked and more snow is on the way. Some folks don't like AC hubs (we're all engagement freaks these days), but most reviews suggest the wheelset is surprisingly stiff and sturdy despite the lightness.
The Mojo 3 can run 27.5+ and 29. I would have to get a different rear swingarm in order to do that on the HD3.

I know the wide lightnings are light, and the engagement is a little slow, but what I am more afraid of is destroying them. There seems to be a lot of used ones that are dented. I am willing to give up a little weight in order to have something bombproof.
 

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I ride bikes
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Discussion Starter #13
I wouldn't waste money on the 10spd garbuk, get a good 11spd derailleur like XTR (223g) and a good 11spd cassette. There are a few better options now. If your DT hubs are star-ratchet drive, you could use the 1up freehub carrier with the Hope cassette (268g for 11-40t) or the SRAM 11spd cassettes, of which X01 is about the best deal, or the new E13 cassette. XTR isn't bad, but at 320g or so for the 11-40 it's not super light. But these are the cassettes you'll be able to pick up for years to come. Investing into an expensive 10spd cassette is not really worth it IMO, money better spent on 11spd components.

Although I have XX1 cranks on my AM bike that I have beat to hell since 2013ish, the Next are significantly lighter (and stiffer iMO). They hold up great to AM riding for almost everyone and are speced on all kinds of AM bikes as stock equipment.
I just realized I had a nearly brand new HG81 cassette sitting around. I put that on for now (367g). I will probably wait until my chain and cassette wear out to go lighter.

This carbon crankset with the wolftooth should be around 520g which I think is pretty good for $150.
 

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Braille Riding Instructor
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Yes, that is going to be my concern, too. This will either be a brilliant decision on my part or a fool's gamble.

Lots of reports of dings, but most said the wheels stayed true and remained airtight. We shall see ...
 

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You've got the stuff I'd have thought of covered, but for the sake of your figuring, my SRAM Team GXP BB was 106g.
 
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