[Guitar Ted]

(Ahem!) Moving right along now.......

I've come to the conclusion, along with Jeff, that the loop course is going to be one of two ways. I'm putting this up to the veterans and interested parties to get your feedback. Okay? here it is.........

Option #1: Start and finish in Decorah. No real halfway point. No drop bags. No support. 300-ish miles. 30 hours finishing time limit.

Option #2: Start and finish in Waterloo/ Cedar Falls Ia. Half way point back in W'loo/ C.F., Possibility for "drop bag". No other support. 330 - 350 miles. 35 hour time limit.

Okay, here's poll # 2. It's got to do with navigation. Ready? Go!

Option A: Map of route handed out to competitors at start or even down loadable on line before hand. Only first half though. Second half has to be earned! (See Dirty Kanza 200 for example of map) No course markings.

Option B: Traditional cue sheets. Just like in past T.I. events. No preview, and you must earn second set of sheets. No course markings.

Okay, discuss amongst yourselves!

This thread was getting waaay to focused on the past and not looking forward. No more.

 

[SlowerThenSnot]

Kinna would like

A-1 action a 300 mile loop with maps and no drop bag crap....

thats just me though I wouldn't be to upset with 300 + though

 

[faucho]

1a

1 for route. coming back to the start town in the middle would be too much like starting over.

seems like 2 (cause it's local) would be easier for you to promote.

prefer a to b.

map's better than cue sheet as long as the route is clear. can't find the dirty kanza example.

i do not think first half maps (or cue sheets) should be available online.

 

[Joe_Jitsu]

1b

300 miles and 30 hours is plenty, esp. with the hills that I remember from the area in question.

I think the map idea is ok, but some type of course marking at questionable corners would be required. I remember sitting at several intersections during DK wondering which way to go, and that was with many corners marked. The cue sheets from TI 1 and 2 were great--I wouldn't change a thing.

Joe

 

[PaddyH]

here's to moving forward!

I'll take combo 2B please....

....with an extra helping of sweet & sour pork :>

 

[bd.sahib]

1b

I see it like Joe. Que sheets que you look for the sign and know which way to turn. DK everything was so well marked at most turns, it took us by surprise when it wasn't. It was hard to read the print (road names) on the maps on the fly. Who am I kidding, I was so far otb I just followed tire tracks...

 

[Morlahach]

I say 1. No support whatsoever. Makes life easier for you, is more of a challenge for us. I also love the Decorah area, and think the more riding in the hilly area around there the better. If it starts and stops there I guaruntee more climbing than if it starts West of there.

I don't really care if I get a map or cue sheets. Either way is fine by me, as long as the map has enough detail.

Whether it is downloadable before hand or not, I see the differences in that it allows people to be able to

a) preride the course
b) make more informed decisions about gearing, distance between water stops, etc
c) allows significant others to figure out good places along the course to spectate/help a rider bail out/etc.

If you don't mind any of these happening, post it. If you do, don't. I can see this one both ways. You can either blind fold us to the last second so the whole thing is more of an "adventure", or you can give us the info before hand so we are better prepared.

If you just want to prevent people from pre-riding it, post it a night or two before the race. Then we can make mental preparations about gearing, set up spectator points, etc, but not allow enough time for a pre-ride.

 

[Guitar Ted]

A little course info to help you.

First off, thanks for voting your preferences guys. This is exactly what we are looking for. Feel free to elaborate a bit.

Now as far as Option #2 goes, just because it would start and stop in the W'loo/ C.F. area doesn't mean that we wouldn't be going through Decorah. (We will no matter what) Also, don't think for a minute that the Decorah area is the only area in Iowa with major climbing. :smilewinkgrin:

........now, please continue voting! :thumbsup:

 

[dmsigurdur]

hmmmmm

This is actually pretty cool as the options are very different.
I'd say that my vote goes for...2b . No advantage to locals and the distance is still painfully far.
Having participated this year I now see that the stores on the route are in fact drop bags so i don't care if we pack our own for the course.
Dallas " do I have to start training for T3 already?" Sigurdur

 

[MoroCyclist]

1B - 300 miles with a cue sheet. couldn't be finer.

 

[FOX8000]

1/2 B

Make that 1/2 A not B

I vote for both 1 and 2. I think it would be easier for the organizers if it started in their home town as stated in option 2. But, I like the one big loop with no support part of choice 1. I also like option A for the second poll. A map like at DK with mileages at the turns would be great. I think its easier to visualize where I'm going with a map rather than que sheets.

Dave "Trans-Iowa Groupie" Simmons :thumbsup:

 

[KERKOVEJ]

Website is being updated!

 

[Endurosnob]

Something in a bikini, mesh if possible...

Sorry, wrong poll.

Option 1. I really don't care about the map situation though. Good directions are good directions, no matter how they are provided. I would trust G-Ted and Jeff to do what's best based on the course.

I do not, however, trust them when it comes to the weather.

 

[FishMan473]

I don't have time to read the entire thread right now, so I appologize if this is duplcated...

I like the idea of more singletrack. I hear there are trails around Prairie du Chien WI, the Quad Cities and near La Crosse Wi that you could perhaps incorperate. Having the course run in and out of the Mississippi Valley would make it that much more challenging.

As for B road vs trails and less well maintained roads, I expect it wouldn't be TOO hard to plot out a route of the latter as well as alternative B road routing in case of wet conditions. A few days before the race make the descision as to whether it is dry enough for the potentially sloppier, more challenging route and go to press with the maps or directions or whatever for that route.

 

[mikesee]

Mark and Jeff

Good to see that both of y'all are puttin' on another one. Whether I get to race it or not, thanks in advance for putting in all the time and effort.

Although I have yet to finish a TI event, I thought I'd toss in my couple pennies:

I've come to the conclusion, along with Jeff, that the loop course is going to be one of two ways. I'm putting this up to the veterans and interested parties to get your feedback. Okay? here it is.........

Option #1: Start and finish in Decorah. No real halfway point. No drop bags. No support. 300-ish miles. 30 hours finishing time limit.

Yes, yes, yes. No damn drops. No support. Need somethin' you forgot? There's a Casey's in the next hour or two--get it then and learn from your mistake.

Okay, here's poll # 2. It's got to do with navigation. Ready? Go!

Option B: Traditional cue sheets. Just like in past T.I. events. No preview, and you must earn second set of sheets. No course markings.

Key words: No preview! Hand 'em out with less than 30 minutes to start. No hints or leaked info like in TI V.1--make it a surprise, and make us earn it.

Other thoughts:

-If I'm not mistaken, Decorah has piles of singletrack. Make us do a 'parade lap' or two (~10+ miles) on it at the start, and maybe even a lap or three at the finish. Yes, gravel roads and B roads will form the bulk of the mileage, but we're mountain bikers (even if we choose to ride something different for the race) and we'd like to have a little real trail thrown in. Not only would it be fun and keep us on our toes, it'd force people to think a little more critically and conservatively about gear choices. That, or pay the price.

-Send us to some other singletrack loops, preferably at night, for even more miles. Waterloo/CF? LaCrosse? Hell, send us down to Dubuque to ride the bluffs down there...

-If I remember correctly, the Decorah area has lots of hills. Use all of them, as often as you can. Make us suffer. Make those of us who brought aero bars pour sweat and drool onto them, and wonder why we're lugging that extra weight up every damn hill in NE Iowa.

-If at all possible, keep the B roads to a maximum (~60+%) and the gravel to a minimum. Maybe make us climb all the gravel hills around Decorah, etc..., then send us out on a big B-road sufferfest loop before bringing us back for more hills. I understand that gravel roads are what form the bulk of the Iowa 'backcountry', but that doesn't mean that's all that's out there. Be creative. Show us something different. Give us something to remember.

-Be merciless and diabolical. If an idea pops into your head for a course routing that seems too hard, too long, too ridiculous, use it. Twice. Please.

-Please don't let this race become like all the others. Anyone can finish a 24 or a 100 miler. Anyone can finish a team adventure race. I love that this year's TI had zero finishers. I think that's the measure of a good ultra event: Some years, no one can do it. It's happened in the past at the Grand Loop, and it's certain to happen again. Good.

-Please don't dumb it down to encourage more entrants and more finishers. If anything, do the opposite--make it so hard and so ruthless that you scare 'em off before they even think about filling out the entry form. If they ask for details, laugh maniacally and tell 'em they don't get no stinkin' details...

That's all I've got right now.

I'll check in in a few days to see how things are progressing.

Thanks again.

MC

 

[dmsigurdur]

hmmmmm

Now I in no way want to question the guru mike but i think that the B grade roads ( which in Manitoba are in fact farmers access roads and not intended for travel, in fact they are only used to get fuel to machinery and such) which were black soil when wet pretty much make you walk as we all did this year. Now everyone knows I'm a runner foremost so it doesn't bother me to much but walking a bike for literally miles seems to go against the bike race idea. I am all for a hard course but I think the soil "road " was the nail in almost everyones coffin. In fact I'd go so far as to say the riding didn't do allot of people in the walking did.
I think the soil roads should have alternate routes in case of rain that way people can ride to their hearts content.
Actually now that I've read what I wrote I come off as an *******. sorry .
Dallas " I'll be there if McNaughton doesn't have a 150 mile run in April " Sigurdur

 

[Supreme Justice SRC]

1, B

Decorah is a great place to start and finish. I'm not all that opposed to starting in Cedar Falls, but I like the idea of no drop bag. As for maps and course markings, I'm more used to maps. That's what I use on my training rides. On the other hand since much of Iowa is a grid of gravel it's pretty easy to miss a turn if you don't know the road name. On my training rides I deal with this by not caring and going with the flow, but that won't fly during a race.

Regardless I'll be there next year. Anything this good this close to home is not to be missed.

Matt Maxwell

 

[Guitar Ted]

Checking in.......

First of all....Thanks to all who have responded and given us your thoughts! You guys are appreciated. I respect your talents as cyclists and Jeff and I both regard your opinions carefully.

It looks as though the majority would like to see a loop course out of Decorah and to have the cue sheet navigation model employed. So let it be written! So let it be told!

Work on course planning has already begun.

Next option to consider: The Start Time!

I have started both of the previous two T.I. events from the lead out van and here is my take: I like the night time start. Here's why: It's spectacular, for one thing. Seeing all those head lights and blinking red LED's is just too cool. Also, it gives the event a whole different feel that was at once more epic but also more intense. If I recall, the post dawn start of T.I. #1 was rather dull in comparison.

Here's why I don't like the night time start: Hills. Dangerous downhills to be precise. You guys think you can handle it? Then convince me and we'll start at night.

........on second thought, we might just start at night anyway! :ihih:

 

[Pivvay]

Real downhills just mean you can't use minimal lights for the night portions. Make the race hard and we'll find out if it's possible to finish.

 

[paulclimb510]

I would love to see the start and finish in Decorah with a half way point coming close to Decorah again. I love the idea of adding some single track, but that is only if it is rideable. Carrying my near 50 pound bike (with the added mud) from last year was not fun.

If you have maps then please consider having the course marked. At night it would have been hell with the maps they had at DK if they hadn't had the turns marked. Personally, I like the cue sheets.

Also, how about a higher limit of entrants.... Say 100.

I would like to know the pass through towns a few days before the start so I know what to plan for food.

Picky aren't I ?!!?

Thanks again for doing all of this!