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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It's been rumored that John Whyte (suspension guru in Formula 1/Whyte bikes/designer of Marin's acclaimed Quad suspension) drew out the Maestro and says the Trance's wheel movement is vertical, and not up/backward like the Blurs/Spiders/Marins.

Either Giant screwed the pooch in making their own 'VPP' bike, Whyte doesn't know what he's talking about (highly unlikely), or new-bike-euphoria has taken over and has convinced those who rode it that it's more than what it is.
 

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Well, I was curious so i graphed it out. First i traced the dots right from the screen then i graphed it out and in fact there is a virtual pivot point. It pivots about a point that is marked on that picture. It was a pretty rough graph, but that should be a pretty good estimate, that's if those seat and chain stays don't curve too much. I just drew straight lines out from the little part of the stays to see guess where the drop out is.How it performs, i wouldn't really know, but just asked the guys who have tried it.

I forgot to mention thata it doesn't move up and back. It's pretty much up vertically. It moves out just a wee bit then comes in again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
b12yan88 said:
Well, I was curious so i graphed it out. First i traced the dots right from the screen then i graphed it out and in fact there is a virtual pivot point. It pivots about a point that is marked on that picture. It was a pretty rough graph, but that should be a pretty good estimate, that's if those seat and chain stays don't curve too much. I just drew straight lines out from the little part of the stays to see guess where the drop out is.How it performs, i wouldn't really know, but just asked the guys who have tried it.

I forgot to mention thata it doesn't move up and back. It's pretty much up vertically. It moves out just a wee bit then comes in again.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't up/back the ultimate goal in xc suspension wheelpath? Vertical gives way to traditional chainline/suspension/chain movement? I'm not even going to pretend to be a suspension expert, just a hopeful buyer, hence the post. Thanks.
 

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danK said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't up/back the ultimate goal in xc suspension wheelpath? Vertical gives way to traditional chainline/suspension/chain movement? I'm not even going to pretend to be a suspension expert, just a hopeful buyer, hence the post. Thanks.
Well, frankly, I have no freaking clue. Right now i am in highschool physics(Ap physics), so I am not some engineer, but Whyte is. That picture is of the reign, a freeride bike, so i am not really sure how freeride bikes are. But, from the looks of it the trance rides amazingly well. It soaks up the little bumps, unlike the epic,or NRS which stay pretty hard until you hit a bigger bump. I am not sure, but i think the thing you need to worry about is pedal bobbing, which i think occurs when the pull force of the chain yanks the suspension into motion and I think this is why up and back was better,because that's the opposite direction from the pedal force vector.

Now from what I can see, if you imagine a pulling force on the drop out in the direction of the BB, do you think that the chain can pull it up? It looks like the angle of the bottom pivot is just enough to eliminate bobbing from pedal, but still have a vertical displacement to soak up the litttle bumps better.

Notice how there are lots of I thinks, and "from what i can sees"I really have no idea what i am talking about, but it sounds logical to me
 

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b12yan88 said:
Well, frankly, I have no freaking clue. Right now i am in highschool physics(Ap physics), so I am not some engineer, but Whyte is. That picture is of the reign, a freeride bike, so i am not really sure how freeride bikes are. But, from the looks of it the trance rides amazingly well. It soaks up the little bumps, unlike the epic,or NRS which stay pretty hard until you hit a bigger bump. I am not sure, but i think the thing you need to worry about is pedal bobbing, which i think occurs when the pull force of the chain yanks the suspension into motion and I think this is why up and back was better,because that's the opposite direction from the pedal force vector.

Now from what I can see, if you imagine a pulling force on the drop out in the direction of the BB, do you think that the chain can pull it up? It looks like the angle of the bottom pivot is just enough to eliminate bobbing from pedal, but still have a vertical displacement to soak up the litttle bumps better.

Notice how there are lots of I thinks, and "from what i can sees"I really have no idea what i am talking about, but it sounds logical to me
I have road both the Trance and the Reign and can tell you there is no pedal bob whatsoever. This system works better than any dual I have ridin, you will just have to get on one and see for yourself. At the Interbike show in Vegas these bikes where the big talk at the show, nothing but positive reviews and feedback.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
ILxcMTNbiker said:
I have road both the Trance and the Reign and can tell you there is no pedal bob whatsoever. This system works better than any dual I have ridin, you will just have to get on one and see for yourself. At the Interbike show in Vegas these bikes where the big talk at the show, nothing but positive reviews and feedback.
Cool. What kind of terrain did you ride it on, and for how long?

Can you compare it to a Blur or Spider or Marin... since I feel these are among the best pedaling/climbing xc shorter-travel bikes on the market.
That said, do you think new-bike euphoria had anything to do with it during these somewhat short test rides?

I've got the 30.9 post, the front D and integrated headset (think they come with one anyway) sitting right here waiting. Just hope my dealer doesn't putz out and not get me one in the next week or two like he said.
 

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Wow, you are one prepared guy. After you get it, do you think you could show some pictures, and go ride that thing and tell us all how it feels like. Right now I am starting to save up money for an FS, and these bikes look promising. I'll save up all the way till next summer, Lol.
 

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danK said:
Cool. What kind of terrain did you ride it on, and for how long?

Can you compare it to a Blur or Spider or Marin... since I feel these are among the best pedaling/climbing xc shorter-travel bikes on the market.
That said, do you think new-bike euphoria had anything to do with it during these somewhat short test rides?

I've got the 30.9 post, the front D and integrated headset (think they come with one anyway) sitting right here waiting. Just hope my dealer doesn't putz out and not get me one in the next week or two like he said.
I rode them at the demo part of Interbike at the trails in Boulder City , Neveda. i was on them for just over an hour apeice. In regards to how it rides compared to a Blur, I rode a blur right after I got off the Reign, no comparison. The Reign rode smoother, handled better on the downhills and even climbed better for a heavier and longer travel bike. Cannot compare to a Spider or a Marin because I did not ride those when i was out there, but I would figure that the new Giants would be a better choice.

New-bike euphoria, no way, the trails out there can get pretty aggresive and riding about 8 or 9 bikes a day on the same trails I can get the feeling of which ones ride better.

In regards to your dealer, if you are in the US, the Trances and the Reigns will not be available till mid November and some models till end of December. I already have Trances and Reigns on order for my shop and these are the dates that Giant give me for arrival. I also ordered these bikes in the start of September so I know I am one of the first dealers to get these models.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for the excellent and thorough reply!

ILxcMTNbiker said:
I rode them at the demo part of Interbike at the trails in Boulder City , Neveda. i wa on the for just over an hour apeice. In regarts to how it rides compared to a Blur, I rode a blue right after I got off the Reign, no comparison. The Reign rode smoother, handled better on the downhills and even climbed better for a heavier and lokger travel bike. Cannot compare to a Spider or a Marin because I did not ride those when i was out there, but I would figure that the new Giants would be a better choice.

New-bike euphoria, no way, the trails out there can get pretty aggresive and riding about 8 or 9 bikes a day on the same trails I can get the feeling of which ones ride better.

In regards to your dealer, if you are in the US, the Trances and the Reigns will not be available till mid November and some models till end of December. I already have Trances and Reigns on order for my shop and these are the dates that Giant give me for arrival. I also ordered these bikes in the start of September so I know I am one of the first dealers to get these models.
 

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Alright, sounds like I am going to save up for the Reign. I read some posts about the nixon fork. Some people have bottomed it out so badly that a 2.3 sized tire hit the crown and endoed the guy, sounds dangerous. That guy said manitou has fixed this problem, err somehow. Do you know if the reign has the fixed one ?
 

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b12yan88 said:
Alright, sounds like I am going to save up for the Reign. I read some posts about the nixon fork. Some people have bottomed it out so badly that a 2.3 sized tire hit the crown and endoed the guy, sounds dangerous. That guy said manitou has fixed this problem, err somehow. Do you know if the reign has the fixed one ?
I am 220lbs and did have this problem with the first Reign that I took out, on the 2nd time out I put the heavier weight spring in the shock and no problem.
 

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ILxcMTNbiker said:
I am 220lbs and did have this problem with the first Reign that I took out, on the 2nd time out I put the heavier weight spring in the shock and no problem.
From what i read they put somee spacers or something which gave the top 8-10mm more clearance so it wouldn't hit the top even if it were ot bottom out
 

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b12yan88 said:
Alright, sounds like I am going to save up for the Reign. I read some posts about the nixon fork. Some people have bottomed it out so badly that a 2.3 sized tire hit the crown and endoed the guy, sounds dangerous. That guy said manitou has fixed this problem, err somehow. Do you know if the reign has the fixed one ?
Its hard to belive that people at manitu are that stupid to build such fork.
 

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ILxcMTNbiker said:
I am 220lbs and did have this problem with the first Reign that I took out, on the 2nd time out I put the heavier weight spring in the shock and no problem.
I forgot to ask, does the Nixon have a 20 mm through axel or is it a standard one.

Thanks,
Bryan
 

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danK said:
I believe it's questioning the integrity of Manitou and how they could do such an idiotic thing.
thats how i see it.
 

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danK said:
It's been rumored that John Whyte (suspension guru in Formula 1/Whyte bikes/designer of Marin's acclaimed Quad suspension) drew out the Maestro and says the Trance's wheel movement is vertical, and not up/backward like the Blurs/Spiders/Marins.

Either Giant screwed the pooch in making their own 'VPP' bike, Whyte doesn't know what he's talking about (highly unlikely), or new-bike-euphoria has taken over and has convinced those who rode it that it's more than what it is.
Actually he's kinda right. I drew a sketch (very rough) of the Maestro suspension on CAD taking measures from the suspensionmadeharmonious.com site and the wheel path is more similar to a true Horst Link than a VPP. It goes rearwards in the early beggining of the travel for bump compliance and then it moves up and at some point it moves towards the seatpost in order to copy (I'm guessing) the movement of the front wheel and keep your weight centered over the bike for minimum body english when you're deep in the travel. Chain growth is minimum in both directions which explains why you don't feel the suspension interacting your pedaling. The resulting curve is more vertical than a Horst (which is very vertical already)

Also, observing the links placement it's clear that it uses chain torque to prevent bob but not as much as a NRS.

I can share the sketch if anyone PM-me.

I might be wrong and I'd like to share opinions.
 
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