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Purple Liquid said:
I have a Fuel 95 (My racing bike) and a Liquid 25. The liquid has about 5 pounds on the fuel, so would it be a good way to get stronger to ride a heavier bike at a race pace?

JM
Do some searches, there was a post on something similar like riding with weights. I think the conclusion was that you can accomplish the same thing as riding on a heavier bike by riding a lighter bike using higher gears.

Off the line and accelerations would be different though. Plus there is a perception of feeling faster after riding a heavy bike for a few months then jumping on the new one.
 

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Metalheadbikerider
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The only way I can see this being helpful...

Purple Liquid said:
I have a Fuel 95 (My racing bike) and a Liquid 25. The liquid has about 5 pounds on the fuel, so would it be a good way to get stronger to ride a heavier bike at a race pace?

JM
is if you are riding with others and trying to keep up with them. If you are riding by yourself, or with others that aren't as fast, I don't see an advantage. For example, I do group road rides in the winter with some semi-pros and I would try to keep up with them on my cross bike. It got a little easier to do when I got a road bike, so I occasionally bust out the heavier cross bike to hurt myself even more.
That being said, if you are mimicking race pace, I would do it on the bike you race on so that you are totally dialed on your race bike.
 

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Topeak-Ergon Racing
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I have been doing one or two rides on a heavier bike (about 10 lbs more than my race bikes) and one with a limited gear selection. It has a single 38 tooth on the front and an 11-34 cassette on the back. I've been doing all my long weekend mtb rides on this bike.

Some of the benefits I have found so far are:
1. I cannot spin even if I wanted to on some climbs (similar to riding a SS)
2. More upper body involvement all around, but especially on the technical climbs.
3. Increased confidence on the descents (that has to do with the 6+ inches of travel)
4. More effort required for accelerations (heavier wheels).
5. I have to work harder &/or more efficiently to keep up with the usual group.
6. It's fun, which is motivating when it 32* out. (and motivation trumps everything!)


Cons:
1. Different geometry than the race bike

I say if you already have the bike in the stable, then use it. I would not have gone out and purchased a heavier bike just to train on, but since I have it, I enjoy riding it, and there are some benefits (at least perceived) I'll keep doing it.

I think a heavier wheel set on the race bike for training would be beneficial too and save wear & tear on the race wheels.

Eddie O
 

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try doing xc on a dh rig

I have a couple of old school hardtails, and a RM 7 DH rig. the rm7 with 26" front deemax with 3" tire, and a 24" on the back probably weighs in at 42lbs+ although I never weighed it. I ride XC every weekend with a group who ride Prophets and Jeckyls. I am sure that y bike outweighs theirs by 15 lbs. plus I have only 8 usable gears(chain guards prevents use of big ring in back). I stay with or lead these guys up most of our long climbs. on some super steep pitches I just can't make it up with my gearing. my ride is so plush that if I stand up the bike starts sponging up and down so much I do more vertical than horizontal. in the spring I will buy a true XC racer(full susp) and we will see how much good it did to train on that heavy DH rig. BTW - my biggest complaint about riding the DH rig XC is not the weight, its the noise of the chain the guard shims

Purple Liquid said:
I have a Fuel 95 (My racing bike) and a Liquid 25. The liquid has about 5 pounds on the fuel, so would it be a good way to get stronger to ride a heavier bike at a race pace?

JM
 

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Topeak-Ergon Racing
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cmatcan said:
i would say just use harder gears and ride more aggressively if you want to increase your power. This way you'll keep the bike-feel of your race rig too, so as not to confuse things.
I gotta disagree here. I think my skills & fitness have improved from riding many different bikes. One, you get a chance to learn the pros and cons of your current set up and may find a better way to ride or a change in equipment you never thought of. You also get to learn how to handle a different rig. A single speed, your current XC rig and a 8 inch DH bike will all require different approaches to same stretch of trail....why not learn all three if you have the opportunity. It's not like you forget how to ride an XC bike if you throw a leg over a DH rig.

Again, I am not saying go buy new equipment, but if you already have it you can ride it guilt free.

Eddie O
 

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i ride my DH bike XC all the time because my only other bikes are full rigids.

Eddie O said:
I gotta disagree here. I think my skills & fitness have improved from riding many different bikes. One, you get a chance to learn the pros and cons of your current set up and may find a better way to ride or a change in equipment you never thought of. You also get to learn how to handle a different rig. A single speed, your current XC rig and a 8 inch DH bike will all require different approaches to same stretch of trail....why not learn all three if you have the opportunity. It's not like you forget how to ride an XC bike if you throw a leg over a DH rig.

Again, I am not saying go buy new equipment, but if you already have it you can ride it guilt free.

Eddie O
 

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I don't think there is any truth to becoming faster by training on a heavier bike. 200 watts is 200 watts regardless of the bike. The only difference is how fast it will move. If you ride a light bike you compensate by riding harder and faster on it. Your body will always try to ride at its limit. Its best to just ride the bike you'll race in so your body is perfectly adapted to it.
 

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I love Pisgah
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Exactly. This is a common myth.

You should be putting out the same effort with whatever your on. You just generate more speed while doing so as a result of the lighter bike.

Now, if your having to cover the same distance(as opposed to time spent)on a given ride with the heavier bike, one could argue that your ride will be longer as a result of the heavier bike, therefore getting a "longer" workout(assuming the effort is the same along the way as would it be on the lighter bike).
 

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so all rides are the same difficulty is watts are the same?

Watts are basically the rate at which power is consumed. total wattage expended over the course of a workout is simply equal to the sustained wattage x time. so if you rode your bike up a mountian, you could also expend the same number of watts walking around the mall, you would just need to walk for a longer period of time. a realistic example:
you go on a training ride with your friends. you ride the same distance over the same period of time. you are on a bike that is twenty lbs heavier than theirs. who has expended the most wattage? the answer is has to be derived(i'm sorry it came to this):

Watt = power generated by expending energy at the rate of 1 joule per second
Joule = amount of energy expended in order to apply a force of 1 newton over a distance of 1 meter
Newton = the force required to cause a mass of one kilogram to accelerate at a rate of one meter per second squared

sooooo, the heavier the bike, the more newtons required to move it. the more newtons required, the more joules that need to be expended. so whoever is expending the most newtons over the same period of time will be producing the most wattage. try testin this out on any decent stairmaster with 2 different size people.

Duckman said:
Exactly. This is a common myth.

You should be putting out the same effort with whatever your on. You just generate more speed while doing so as a result of the lighter bike.

Now, if your having to cover the same distance(as opposed to time spent)on a given ride with the heavier bike, one could argue that your ride will be longer as a result of the heavier bike, therefore getting a "longer" workout(assuming the effort is the same along the way as would it be on the lighter bike).
 

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Topeak-Ergon Racing
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I agree in a lab all this is true.

...but in real life I ride in a group and if I ride a heavier bike and keep on the same ride I'm doing more work and there for getting a better work out. Even if I am riding alone, I still get a better upper body workout from manueving the heavier bike. Then there are the intangibles like motivation, challenge and fun, which I believe to be way more important than any reason given above.

Add to all that the limited gearing I run on my heavier bike (38x11-34) and I am definately getting a better workout.

Eddie O
 

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Topeak-Ergon Racing
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Hecubus said:
..... Its best to just ride the bike you'll race in so your body is perfectly adapted to it.
This is the only arguement I have heard so far that Purple Liquid should worrry about IMO. As you get closer to race time, you should definitely be riding your race Fuel to be familar with the handling, gearing etc....

Eddie O
 

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Well,
I've got an old Cannondale ridgid that is pimped out with about 20 lbs of child carrier and holds another 26 lbs of babbling infant that I do my hill training on. About 45 minutes of ups & downs in our subdivision would kill a normal human.

If that isn't bad enough, my "trail" bike weighs 40 lbs. I rode that fat bastard 30 miles Sunday and climbed a few thousand feet. Near the end I was talking to God when Jesus spoke to me and said "Thou art stupid....wouldst thou use a hammer for a toothbrush? Nay! Return to thy truck and never attempt such idiocy again".

I've got a sweet gemini for sale if anyone wants a heavy bike to train on. I don't care if it would turn me into Lance Armstrong...climbing all day on that pig just sucks.
 

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ChipV said:
Well,.....I've got a sweet gemini for sale if anyone wants a heavy bike to train on. I don't care if it would turn me into Lance Armstrong...climbing all day on that pig just sucks.
Goes back to motivation......which this bike does not seem to instill. Think of the workout you'd get if you kept up with your buddies who are ridding their XC bikes. :D

Eddie O
 

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Eddie O said:
Goes back to motivation......which this bike does not seem to instill. Think of the workout you'd get if you kept up with your buddies who are ridding their XC bikes. :D

Eddie O
Lol, you are pretty familiar with the ride I just did. Up Bear Creek, down Mountain town, then across to Pinhotti and all the way up to 52, then back to Gates Chapel. It was Sunday, I was alone, and had all afternoon. I passed a HUGE group from the Cartecay NY ride...they were on their way back from 52 and some looked a bit worse for wear.

I couldn't say if heavier bikes actually helps with training. Personally, I think once you reach a certain level of fitness being competitve stems more from mental toughness than anything else. You have to become familiar with exerting yourself beyond your bodies normal limits. The more you train in the upper limits of your bodies capabilites, the more able you are to sustain those efforts. Riding a 40 lb pig up a long climb hurts me more than riding a 24 lb hardtail....so in my mind I am benefiting more. Admittedly, I don't know what I am talking about, and don't even race, so take it with a grain of salt! I just like to ride.
 

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Topeak-Ergon Racing
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Wow, that's a helluva route. Do I know you? I was on that Cartecay ride...red Nomad, but you may have run into the late comers too. It's so much fun bombing those descents on that thing and a helluva work out keeping up with the group too.

I agree that your mental state will have more to do with winning, fitness gains, being competitive, etc then anything else and that is what the weight wienies who say just use a bigger gear are missing. I spend any where from 12 to 20 some hours a week on a bike. I find that having the opportunity to change things up is huge advantage. Single speeds, downhill rigs, super light XC'ers, road bikes, unicycles all have something to offer and anything that keeps me motivated is good. If you are not having fun and learning new things then how long will you be doing it?

Eddie O
 

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Eddie, we've never met but I did see your bike at the Cartecay shop once...you may have noticed the drool when you picked it up. I probably shouldn't be puting my .02 in about training since I don't even race. I went down that road for a few years and got burned out pretty bad. My riding is all about having a good time these days...of late I have addicted to exploring new trails and epic, all day rides (when I can fit them in!). To me, being competitve means being the guy with the fewest dabs at the end of the day, ha ha.
 
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