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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Big changes with Trailforks moving to app subscription model if you travel a lot outside your home area (square of 38 mile sides, which equals to 1400 square miles). App will be free to use within your home area and on the desktop.

Sign Up:
https://www.trailforks.com/pro/

Pricing $3/month, special pricing if you sign up in September 2020.

FAQs on the changes:
https://www.trailforks.com/pro/faq/
 

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since 4/10/2009
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F*ck Trailforks.

30km radius doesn't remotely cover my "home area". It's more like 30-60mi (I just measured it out on a map).
 

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since 4/10/2009
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Are you seriously losing your sh!t over $1.50/month?
When it was the same stuff they supplied without charge before, yes. Same BS Strava pulled this year, too. Taking features they didn't charge for in the past, then charging for them. It's fine to offer a premium service and a free service. But it's damn shitty to take features away from free users and begin charging for them.

Particularly, I'm pissed that TF is making their radius so small. Oh, we're going to throw a bone to people and let them access their "local" trails on a free account. Just about everywhere I've lived, my "radius" has been roughly a 1-1.5hr drive. Some places I've lived have had zero trails within 30km of my city. With the radius TF gives, that rules out trails that I'll ride in the evening after work.

Everybody wants subscription services now, too. Across all aspects of life. So someone exercising financial budgeting in their household needs to pick and choose subscriptions carefully and not just start paying when a formerly 100% free service they've used now requires a subscription to access what you used to access.
 

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Yeah, this super sucks.

If the "home" area was larger, I might be less annoyed (still annoyed though).

But this 30 square miles... That covers exactly one of my local riding areas that I actively ride, out of at least 4-5 that I consider "local" (about an hour drive in any direction).

Also, looking at the FAQ... I'm still not certain how Free and Pro differ. It says free can still record rides anywhere in the world, view your own rides, and check trail conditions/update them. That seems like most things?

Or does that mean that the public facing trail maps will now be behind a paywall?
 

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Looking more at the main page, I noticed it explicitely says "app" features for pro, are unlimited offline access to trails/etc. To me that sounds like maybe the website will still let you browse trails in other regions/etc (scouting trails/planning rides/etc).

In fact, it looks like the app is the main thing affected here, so it might not be as big of a deal for me personally. I only record on the app, and view everything else on my PC. And I don't use any of the "social" features either (I don't "follow" anyone else, or view their rides/etc).
 

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When it was the same stuff they supplied without charge before, yes. Same BS Strava pulled this year, too. Taking features they didn't charge for in the past, then charging for them. It's fine to offer a premium service and a free service. But it's damn shitty to take features away from free users and begin charging for them.

Particularly, I'm pissed that TF is making their radius so small. Oh, we're going to throw a bone to people and let them access their "local" trails on a free account. Just about everywhere I've lived, my "radius" has been roughly a 1-1.5hr drive. Some places I've lived have had zero trails within 30km of my city. With the radius TF gives, that rules out trails that I'll ride in the evening after work.

Everybody wants subscription services now, too. Across all aspects of life. So someone exercising financial budgeting in their household needs to pick and choose subscriptions carefully and not just start paying when a formerly 100% free service they've used now requires a subscription to access what you used to access.
If they don't make money, they go out of business, then there won't even be a free version to use. It alway funny when people complain about having to pay for something.
 

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An 18 mile local area is BS. If there are trails within 18, or even 40 miles, likely you ride them all the time and as such have no need to use TF.

Just a way to keep the operation afloat and maybe it'll help fund add'l features. I've no problem paying a small fee for a decent service. I do this with RideWithGPS as I use it all the time, so am happy paying for it. TF I don't need to use much.
 

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I've never paid for an app as I don't use many. But TF is the one app I would pay for. And at $1.50/month, its a no brainer.
 

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If they don't make money, they go out of business, then there won't even be a free version to use. It alway funny when people complain about having to pay for something.
It's always funny when people miss the point.

It's not about there being a paid version. It's about taking away formerly free features and making you pay for them. Strava did this with leaderboards. I never used those much, so no real skin off my back, but it was still a shitty move. TF's move here is REAL shitty because the first thing that TF existed for was to show maps of the trails. And now that core functionality (the only reason I even used TF) is going paid.

If they had planned a bit better, they could have realized that they're going to need to make money with it some way or another (if only to cover development costs), and set up free/premium services from the start (or at least planned for it and set it up that map use/planning would always be free, but new features would always hit premium first and some would always be premium). But nah, as shown above, they came in advertising "Free forever!" and now "oops, my bad, now we have to charge you for things, so technically, we lied."

I also have issues with charging people to access GPS data that they were GIVEN or that they skimmed from other services. Maybe I should write TF a bill for the trail data that I've submitted to their website now that they're going to be charging users to access it. On trails that are also outside the 30km "home" radius. So now I can't even access map data that I've uploaded, I guess?

And as to the point about the 30km radius being BS, it kinda is. I don't have ALL the trails in my usual riding area memorized yet (it takes awhile to memorize several hundred miles of trails within my 1-1.5hr radius), so I still consult maps from time to time. But within 30km, yeah, I've got all those memorized. So I don't NEED TF to navigate myself. Though I occasionally do pull out maps to show visitors who are lost. It just won't be TF.

Also, considering when TF's main competitor (MTB Project) shows all the maps on its website and allows offline downloading on its app for free, it's honestly kinda hard for me to justify TF. Seems like TF is counting on people thinking it's SO MUCH BETTER that they'll feel justified in paying up and continuing to pass on MTB Project. Meh. Frankly I think TF will lose some people over it. I already used the two services fairly equally, but at this point, I'm going to be going dialing back TF use.
 

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It's always funny when people miss the point.

It's not about there being a paid version. It's about taking away formerly free features and making you pay for them.
Yeah, you're mad that you have to pay for a service that was previously free. You feel you are entitled to their hard work for free...a lot of the population feels they are entitled to others hard work and service for free.

Start your own program and give it away for free, or stop complaining that you can't get free stuff
 

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Yeah, you're mad that you have to pay for a service that was previously. You feel you are entitled to their hard work for free...a lot of the population feels they are entitled to others hard work and service for free.

Start your own program and give it away for free, or stop complaining that you can't get free stuff
Their hard work? They relied on the hard work of their users for that database. The bone they throw? A discount on sub fees. But I still have to pay to view data that I submitted.
 

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Their hard work? They relied on the hard work of their users for that database. The bone they throw? A discount on sub fees. But I still have to pay to view data that I submitted.
Yeah, you agree to that when you used their app. Stop complaining. You aren't owed anything.
 

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Yeah, you agree to that when you used their app. Stop complaining. You aren't owed anything.
It's good that there are other options out there, so nobody has to pay TF for anything. Still doesn't mean that it's not a shitty move by TF.
 

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Progress is relentless. Can't stop it just because something used to be this way but now needs to be this way. I can't see even $3 a month covering the operating cost of paying software devs just to maintain the app and website let alone develop new features.
 

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It’s mostly a few things for me.

It’s hard anytime when something changes. Especially something they said would be “free forever”.

I hate subscription services. I’d rather buy software outright, than pay for it in perpetuity.

They state that the free version is because they expect people to be contributing to their local trail systems with condition information/etc. this makes sense to me, but have one problem with how it’s implemented.

Their “home region” is incredibly small. I looked mine up. I live in the greater Seattle area, an area blessed with lots of good trail networks/systems.

Yet most of the trails that I consider “local” wouldn’t be included in my "home region". Meaning, Duthie Hill, Tiger Mountain, and Raging river. Arguably the most popular mountain biking networks in the area.

I have exactly one riding area that I actually ride in that radius (not any of the ones above). And thats not counting other trail systems that most would still consider "greater seattle region", like Bellingham.

Not saying I know the ideal “home region size”, but just stating that their intent was to have most local trails be free, and to pay for stuff outside that, that they seem to have missed the mark.

Maybe I’ll go give feedback on their forums, and maybe some tweaking of the numbers could happen in the future.

And, I understand it’s their prerogative. Just also stating that I’m not tied to supporting them.
 
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