IMO and experience, an SPV fork is not needed for seated climbing.
TPC part 2
so it seems like the consensous is TPC+ is the shizznit. So in this thread, is the new 05 manitou TPC just the plain jane "TPC" or is it in actuality "TPC+" or Evolve damping make TPC+ redundant in their lineup?
With the travel adjust of the 03 shermans, is SPV really necessary for seated climbing? They feel substantially stiffer than the longer travel setting (showroom).
thanks,
-Sp
With the travel adjust of the 03 shermans, is SPV really necessary for seated climbing? They feel substantially stiffer than the longer travel setting (showroom).
thanks,
-Sp
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Manitous Black Platinum IT..
Comes with a lockout and FFD dampning ..can I replace that with TPC + ?
Comes with a lockout and FFD dampning ..can I replace that with TPC + ?
Was that a typo? Website says TPC Lockout...DH_WP said:Comes with a lockout and FFD dampning ..can I replace that with TPC + ?
http://www.answerproducts.com/items.asp?deptid=1&itemid=16
- which I guess still fits with your question about upgrading to TPC+...
It comes with TPC, not FFD.DH_WP said:Comes with a lockout and FFD dampning ..can I replace that with TPC + ?
Nope ...IT travel .. 05
http://www.stevecramerproducts.com.au/
Sorry should of said ... the 05 Black Platinum comes with IT travel (0-120mm)FFD and a TPC lockoutHecubus said:It comes with TPC, not FFD.
http://www.stevecramerproducts.com.au/
Overall, it looks like Manitou is moving the black line down with FFD instead of TPC. They call it FFD with TPC lockout but it looks like it is just FFD with a cheap TPC compression piston.
So then
So one could save money and get it (really intrestested in the weight and IT travel and put my own TPC + system in and loose the lockout ?anand said:Overall, it looks like Manitou is moving the black line down with FFD instead of TPC. They call it FFD with TPC lockout but it looks like it is just FFD with a cheap TPC compression piston.
Got a question: does TPC, TPC+, FFD, etc. just refer to the compression circuit, or is there a difference in the rebound valving as well? I was thinking its just compression, but I could be ignarunt.
Thats a typo TPC/FFD only refers to the compression circuit. You can only have one or the other.DH_WP said:Sorry should of said ... the 05 Black Platinum comes with IT travel (0-120mm)FFD and a TPC lockout
http://www.stevecramerproducts.com.au/
I am confused. It looks like the rebound is just a port system with a second top port piston for the compression. Hence the twin piston (TPC) name. This is not the same as the nice, shimmed system used previously in the TPC and TPC+ systems.Hecubus said:Thats a typo TPC/FFD only refers to the compression circuit. You can only have one or the other.
Well, as there is very little info about the recent TPC (and I haven't ripped open a Manipoo lately) I can't tell the new TPC is equal or different to the old TPC (Normal or Sport). I'd like to know that too. Most probably with the forks which have a lockout or adjustable compression damping it is more likely to be TPC+ (The compression piston is the main - and huge - difference between TPC and TPC+).SinglePivot said:so it seems like the consensous is TPC+ is the shizznit. So in this thread, is the new 05 manitou TPC just the plain jane "TPC" or is it in actuality "TPC+" or Evolve damping make TPC+ redundant in their lineup?
With the travel adjust of the 03 shermans, is SPV really necessary for seated climbing? They feel substantially stiffer than the longer travel setting (showroom).
thanks,
-Sp
SPV should not be necessary for seated climbing. It may help your mind as you will not see the front end moving a little. SPV is better for people who like (or have to) pedal standing. But it's a matter of opinion so you will hear different approaches to his.
While most riders will not notice it the fact is the front end DOES move during seated climbing and flats. It will vary with pedaling style but its there. It's particularly more apparent with longer travel forks. SPV also helps in other aspects such as reducing fork wollow and brake dive. They alse tend to keep more travel readily available since the fork is not compressing unecessarily. Although I have yet to try it it seems SPV Evolve could possibly do a very good job of replacing TPC and TPC+. The platform. Sensitivity is supposed to be significantly improved and the adjustable platform with the volume adjuster to go from linear to bottom out resistant seems to easily fulfill both roles and more.Warp2003 said:SPV should not be necessary for seated climbing. It may help your mind as you will not see the front end moving a little. SPV is better for people who like (or have to) pedal standing. But it's a matter of opinion so you will hear different approaches to his.
Back on the subject of TPC vs TPC+, I think you are all making incorrect assumptions as to why one is better than the others. TPC+ is probably not ideal for the vast majority of riders out there which is very likely the reason TPC is standard on most forks. TPC gives a very constant damping rate and is ideal for most applications. This is ideal for most riders since it will allow them to easily get full travel of their forks. TPC+ resists bottoming out much better which is very likely the reason it is only implemented on more aggressive forks. TPC+ on the average mountain fork will just end up giving most riders unusable travel towards the end. Its kinda like turning the SPV volume adjuster all the way in on a fork. Its more a matter of the correct implementation for the use.
3
This morning I didn't feel like working, so I ripped apart my '03 Firefly, which has TPC+. Here's a pic of both the compression and rebound circuits. The compresssion is the shorter twin-piston assembly.
![]()
I've developed this problem where there's too much compression damping, and when the second piston activates it does it with a soft "clunk" I looked into the small port that can be adjusted by turning the external compression knob, and there's a small piece of black rubber sticking out of it that looked like part of a seal. I think an internal o-ring shredded and is plugging the hole. I'll take her to my LBS and see if manitou will warranty it even though its over a year old. They've been great about warranty in the past (I break a lot of stuff).
Second problem that y'all have heard about before is that the rebound damping is too fast for taking drops, and 7.5wt oil didn't slow it down enough. I have an older rebound assembly that I broke, so I've taken it apart and I'm going to steal an extra shim from it. This pic is a the old rebound assy taken apart, with the new one below it (pointing the other direction). The little screwdriver is pointing at the shim I'm going to pirate.
![]()
Now the only problem I can see is that the high-speed rebound is controlled by both a really light spring and the shims. I'm not sure adding a shim will do anything since the spring will still open up really easily, but it's worth a try. The little screwdriver is pointing at the spot where I'll stick the extra shim.
![]()
Do you experts out there think this will work? Looks like I'll be trailriding with the SuperT for a while. I guess Manitou is a bit slow on warranty right now since all the mfrs are rolling out their '05 products and taking next year's orders.
-Juice
I've developed this problem where there's too much compression damping, and when the second piston activates it does it with a soft "clunk" I looked into the small port that can be adjusted by turning the external compression knob, and there's a small piece of black rubber sticking out of it that looked like part of a seal. I think an internal o-ring shredded and is plugging the hole. I'll take her to my LBS and see if manitou will warranty it even though its over a year old. They've been great about warranty in the past (I break a lot of stuff).
Second problem that y'all have heard about before is that the rebound damping is too fast for taking drops, and 7.5wt oil didn't slow it down enough. I have an older rebound assembly that I broke, so I've taken it apart and I'm going to steal an extra shim from it. This pic is a the old rebound assy taken apart, with the new one below it (pointing the other direction). The little screwdriver is pointing at the shim I'm going to pirate.
Now the only problem I can see is that the high-speed rebound is controlled by both a really light spring and the shims. I'm not sure adding a shim will do anything since the spring will still open up really easily, but it's worth a try. The little screwdriver is pointing at the spot where I'll stick the extra shim.
Do you experts out there think this will work? Looks like I'll be trailriding with the SuperT for a while. I guess Manitou is a bit slow on warranty right now since all the mfrs are rolling out their '05 products and taking next year's orders.
-Juice
I've gotta disagree with you on this one. TPC+ is sweet because you can run it plush at the top of the stroke so you're super smooth and fast on the small, chattery stuff without plowing through your travel and taking a header when you hit a decent size bump or compression dip. No matter what kind of riding you do its better to have less compression damping at the top of your stoke.Hecubus said:TPC+ resists bottoming out much better which is very likely the reason it is only implemented on more aggressive forks. TPC+ on the average mountain fork will just end up giving most riders unusable travel towards the end.
I agree with you. That is how I used to run my old X-vert Super (that had TPC+). With my new Black Super (with TPC) I have to run it much firmer to prevent bottoming. TPC+ was great!juice said:I've gotta disagree with you on this one. TPC+ is sweet because you can run it plush at the top of the stroke so you're super smooth and fast on the small, chattery stuff without plowing through your travel and taking a header when you hit a decent size bump or compression dip. No matter what kind of riding you do its better to have less compression damping at the top of your stoke.
I agree with you but you are missing my point.juice said:I've gotta disagree with you on this one. TPC+ is sweet because you can run it plush at the top of the stroke so you're super smooth and fast on the small, chattery stuff without plowing through your travel and taking a header when you hit a decent size bump or compression dip. No matter what kind of riding you do its better to have less compression damping at the top of your stoke.
My guess...
MY GUESS....
Add shims on the opposite side of the spring if you want to increase rebound damping. The spring keeps the shim stuck to the piston during the transition from compression to rebound and at low speed (I think). Note the spring only compresses (opens) under compression stroke.
Another trick should do to use a larger (bigger inner dia and/or outer dia) shim on the spring side. This shim controls the oils pass thru the piston and only thing that would change that should be varying the area covered by such shim. Making that shim thicker or using another more or a stiffer spring in there could help to make the shim go back to the piston during the compression-rebound transition... and yes it could make the fork to rebound slower at high-speed as the shims would be returning to the piston even faster.
But my bet is for the shims on the opposite side. That will defintively increase your rebound damping. Want to try another spring?? Take the old one and pull it a bit to make it a tad longer. This will increase a bit the spring rate (it worked to shoot toy rockets a lot longer) and make the spring a bit stiffer so you could experiment.
I'm no expert and I'l like to know if all the figures I made are true or I just fu$%/ it up.
MY GUESS....
Add shims on the opposite side of the spring if you want to increase rebound damping. The spring keeps the shim stuck to the piston during the transition from compression to rebound and at low speed (I think). Note the spring only compresses (opens) under compression stroke.
Another trick should do to use a larger (bigger inner dia and/or outer dia) shim on the spring side. This shim controls the oils pass thru the piston and only thing that would change that should be varying the area covered by such shim. Making that shim thicker or using another more or a stiffer spring in there could help to make the shim go back to the piston during the compression-rebound transition... and yes it could make the fork to rebound slower at high-speed as the shims would be returning to the piston even faster.
But my bet is for the shims on the opposite side. That will defintively increase your rebound damping. Want to try another spring?? Take the old one and pull it a bit to make it a tad longer. This will increase a bit the spring rate (it worked to shoot toy rockets a lot longer) and make the spring a bit stiffer so you could experiment.
I'm no expert and I'l like to know if all the figures I made are true or I just fu$%/ it up.
Yeah, you're right. I had a brainfart on there and was pointing at the wrong side of the piston.Warp2003 said:MY GUESS....
Add shims on the opposite side of the spring if you want to increase rebound damping.
edit: This also makes the issue of the spring a moot point, since that side of the piston doesn't control the rebound speed.
I have not had the chance to ride a SPV fork but I would think if one ran enough SPV to prevent the shock from moving, how in the world would it be plush? I'm currently running a TALAS and it is firm in the 125mm setting. Doesn't move much over small bumps and is great for seated climbing. When I stand, I use the lockout set to full stiff to prevent the fork from moving. I could probably get away with 2-3 clicks less from full lock, but any less and the forks start to cycle with each pedal stroke.
So my question is, does SPV minimize (1" of fork movement vs. 2-3") fork movement during out of the saddle climbing or does it remove most of it?
thanks,
-Sp
So my question is, does SPV minimize (1" of fork movement vs. 2-3") fork movement during out of the saddle climbing or does it remove most of it?
thanks,
-Sp
Warp2003 said:SPV should not be necessary for seated climbing. It may help your mind as you will not see the front end moving a little. SPV is better for people who like (or have to) pedal standing. But it's a matter of opinion so you will hear different approaches to his.
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
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