[zonoskar]

There's a nice 2008 TNT Sultan up for auction on ebay that I'm interested in. But it's a medium and I'm just shy of 6' (182cm), inseam of 32.5". The Turner sizing chart says I need a Large. But looking at the TT of a large Sultan frame, it's a bit long @ 24.5" I currently own 3 bikes, a large 2002 RFX, a medium 2007 Titus RacerX (TT:23.4") and an 18" 2010 Kona Unit 29 (TT:23.3"). So all bikes have a TT of around 23.5", why does Turner keep insisting I need a large bike? I run stems of 100mm on each bike (80mm on the RFX).

Should I go for the Ebay medium, or wait for a large one?

 

[kreater]

hey zono, i am currently riding a med 08 sultan and i'm the same hight as you. i have a 90mm stem and setback post. i love the way the bike fits, it is for sure on the border of being to small but i like the way it feel. i have had a 08 med stop for a few years, again on the border but it felt good. my new 2011 spot i went with a large, the numbers changed since 08 and i feel the large is a better choice. the med can work, but it comes down to personal preference, riding style, and terrain. hope this helps a bit.

 

[glader60]

sizes

Turner recommended 08 Sultan sizes

Medium = Rider Height 5'7" - 5'10"
Large = Rider Height 5'11" - 6'1"

I think you'll be cramped, unless you like a really short cockpit, don't settle just to get a deal.

 

[zonoskar]

Turner recommended 08 Sultan sizes

Medium = Rider Height 5'7" - 5'10"
Large = Rider Height 5'11" - 6'1"

I think you'll be cramped, unless you like a really short cockpit, don't settle just to get a deal.

Yes, I saw the recommendations. Thanks. Does Dave want me to ride with a 70mm stem? Is that how the Turner geometry is established? SInce looking at my current stable, none of the bikes have a long TT and still 'only' use an 100mm stem.

BTW: how come everything is measured in inch, but stem length and seatpost diameter are metric?

 

[noosa2]

I'm 184cm (6') and had a large 2008 Sultan (wish I never sold it). I started with a 90mm stem and it was too stretched for trail riding but once I switched to a 70mm stem it fit perfectly.

 

[zonoskar]

I'm 184cm (6') and had a large 2008 Sultan (wish I never sold it). I started with a 90mm stem and it was too stretched for trail riding but once I switched to a 70mm stem it fit perfectly.

Useful info, thanks. What's your inseam? Do you think that a medium with a 90mm stem would ride similar? The reach should be almost identical.

I'm asking because I already defied Turner's sizing recommendations once when I bought the 5Spot DW. I didn't like that bike, which could have been because it was too small (although I attributed it mainly to the suspension characteristics). Maybe Turners should be ridden with short stems.

 

[miles e]

Do you think that a medium with a 90mm stem would ride similar? The reach should be almost identical.

No. Two bikes with the same reach but a ~1" difference in top tube/stem lengths will not ride "similar" at all. Changing either measurement by that much has a significant impact on how a bike handles; changing them both would only magnify that effect.

 

[rr]

He did design the frame with a long TT/short stem in mind, he told me this when I demo'd one back in '06. As long as the standover is ok for you I would recommend the L with a shorter stem, like miles is saying the reach might be the same but your gonna have a more forward bias on the M.

 

[zonoskar]

Well, it's a moot point now since the auction ended and the seller never answered my questions. Pity.

 

[noosa2]

Useful info, thanks. What's your inseam? Do you think that a medium with a 90mm stem would ride similar? The reach should be almost identical.

I see from your other post in this thread that the opportunity to buy the medium has past. For future reference I will tell you that I did have the opportunity to ride a buddies medium Sultan (he is 5'10") and runs a 90mm (or maybe 100mm) stem and I hated the way it rode. It felt like the front end wander all over the trail and I found that every time I would hit a step-up the front wheel would get sideways. The large frame with a shorter stem just handled so much better for my terrain. My inseam is 33".

I'm asking because I already defied Turner's sizing recommendations once when I bought the 5Spot DW. I didn't like that bike, which could have been because it was too small (although I attributed it mainly to the suspension characteristics). Maybe Turners should be ridden with short stems.

My DW Spot was my least favorite Turner.

 

[zonoskar]

Ok, that settles it, I'll be on the lookout for a large TNT Sultan (or a Ventana el Rey). Unfortunately, most of them are on sale in the US and the sellers won't ship to Europe.

 

[zonoskar]

The sizing issue is still naggin me. I looked at the current Sultan sizing chart:

Frame size         medium    large    XL     XXL
virtual tt          23.0     23.6     24.5   25.3 
seat tube           17.0     19.0     21.0   23.0 
rec'd rider size  5'6-5'10 5'10-6'1 6'1-6'4  6'4 +

While for 2008:

FRAME SIZE         Medium    Large    XL      XXL 
Top Tube Length     23.5      24.5    25.5    26.5 
Seat Tube Length    17        19      21      23 
Rider Height      5'7-5'10 5'11-6'1 6'2-6'4  6'5+

So today, Turner would suggest a 23.6" toptube for my size, while in 2008 they suggested a 24.5" toptube. Isn't that kind of strange? That is about 1 inch difference, how did that happen?

 

[joshuagore]

The sizing issue is still naggin me. I looked at the current Sultan sizing chart:

Frame size         medium    large    XL     XXL
virtual tt          23.0     23.6     24.5   25.3 
seat tube           17.0     19.0     21.0   23.0 
rec'd rider size  5'6-5'10 5'10-6'1 6'1-6'4  6'4 +

While for 2008:

FRAME SIZE         Medium    Large    XL      XXL 
Top Tube Length     23.5      24.5    25.5    26.5 
Seat Tube Length    17        19      21      23 
Rider Height      5'7-5'10 5'11-6'1 6'2-6'4  6'5+

So today, Turner would suggest a 23.6" toptube for my size, while in 2008 they suggested a 24.5" toptube. Isn't that kind of strange? That is about 1 inch difference, how did that happen?

This relates to the 71 to 73 degree head angle, and completely different suspension setup. I am 6'2" and the XL TNT and DW(I had both), feel very roomy on me. I prefer a roomy feel(my gut maybe) as opposed to a tight cockpit.

I run a 70mm stem and a 135mm fork(120mm similar axle to crown) on both bikes. I think you will find that the bike converts from tight switchback bike to layed back stable bike simply with the changing of the stem from stuby to longer.

If I was picky about not dabbing on switchback and could sacrifice my downhill stability I would run a longer stem, or more sag up front. I can pick two switchbacks on my usual trail which cause trouble with the short stem and 135mm fork. I did not have this problem with the tnt but would not sacrifice all the benefits of the dw over the switchback handling. It is really only uphill when seated that I have issues with clearing very tight sections. Downhill on tight sections I can throw my weight around more to either plow or tightly stick the front end.
Josh

 

[miles e]

So today, Turner would suggest a 23.6" toptube for my size, while in 2008 they suggested a 24.5" toptube. Isn't that kind of strange? That is about 1 inch difference, how did that happen?

There was also a 1.5* change in HTA angle and 20% increase in travel. The 2008 and 2011 Sultans are two very different machines.

That said, DT has shrunk top tubes slightly across the board on most models, which combined with the change in scope of intended riding for the Sultan really adds up as you noted.