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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been a hardtail rider and want to move into FS. Some of my riding includes:
Eastern US Trail Riding (singletrack etc), rocky, rooty. I enjoy standing while hitting the hills and dont like pedal bob, which was a reason a stayed with a hardtail this long, but now i see lockout options in the rear and front shocks, so i figured that bob is diminished.
Long endurance rides: (ie, White Rim Trail, Kokopelli, Denali National Park) - These were done while i pulled a Bob from my Hardtail. I may still do these rides with my hardtail if need be, but after 8 hours in the saddle, i'm a bit beat up.
Here's my question. I am currently looking at XC full suspension bikes, figuring they are closest to my style of riding. So i was looking to get some feedback on the following bikes:
Specialized Epic Disk (w/Brain)
Titus Racer X
Turner Flux
Cannondale Scalpel
Any feedback is appreciated.
 

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i too am interested in this question. been looking at the epic as well as the racer x. almost ready to pull the trigger on the racer x
 

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My vote goes to the Epic with brain.

As far as Dream bikes, I drool over the Epic and Racer X. The Racer-X seems like a simplier down to earth no frills bike which I like. I heard the Epic rides almost exactly like a hardtail with the brain. I don't know much about brains so you might want to go to the Specialized forums and see what they say about it.

I heard Turner dropped the horst link and went to their own TNT suspension design, not sure if that's a good thing or a bad.

My Brother owns a Scalpel 2000 and it's a pretty nice bike. Extremely light weight, but he has the one with the headshock. If you were to get this I would highly recommend getting a lefty fork. (skewer in the case of lefties haha) The thing I'm told about lefties is "It's like rocket science, even if I were able to explain it to you, you still wouldn't undertand" so I never asked.
 

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Of what you listed, I like the Flux and the Racer-X and would not consider the others myself. The Flux is definitely more plush that the racer-X but it's not sluggish squishy. It's a fast bike and a bit more trailbike than racebike while the Racer-X is a bit more racebike than trailbike. Can't go wrong with either but the Flux can be had at great prices right now and nobody touches Turner customer service- except Ventana maybe.

So of those, I'd focus on the Titus and Turner but the Flux is definitely an Epic sort of bike. Another difference is that the Flux will feel slightly more relaxed due to slightly slacker geometry. Don't mistake that for slow steering though the Racer-X is a racebike and needs to be super-quick to respond to handlebar input.

Can you ride either one of them at a local shop?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Flux & Titus

I have to research some of the stores for a tryout. I too am beginning to see the value and workmanship that go into the Turner and Titus.
The Flux has a longer a slightly longer chainstay (16.75) vs (16.65) on the Titus. Also, the Titus has Carbon Fiber chainstays which although lightweight, what happens when they get damaged and beatup on rocks and such.
I do more long distance riding, so perhaps the Turner Flux is leading the charge here...
 

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Fo' Bidniz in da haus
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Magnetman said:
I have to research some of the stores for a tryout. I too am beginning to see the value and workmanship that go into the Turner and Titus.
The Flux has a longer a slightly longer chainstay (16.75) vs (16.65) on the Titus. Also, the Titus has Carbon Fiber chainstays which although lightweight, what happens when they get damaged and beatup on rocks and such.
I do more long distance riding, so perhaps the Turner Flux is leading the charge here...
Flyer summarized it well in terms of comparison and contrast of the 2 best bikes on the list you provided.

Definitely the Racer X or Flux based on those you list.
 

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If it's a choice versus the Titus Racer-X and the Turner Flux my vote goes to the Racer-X.

The Flux's suspension design looks like the one from the Trek Fuel. I've read somewhere the horst link is the most efficient out of the suspension designs and the Fuel design loses energy to bob when peddling. I'm not sure if the Flux has the same problem though.

Found the link:
http://alamedabicycle.com/page.cfm?PageID=74

http://www.titusti.com/suspension.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner_Bikes

3. Horst/FSR Link (and TNT)

The Horst link is a design of four bar suspension with a pivot on the chain-stay close to the rear wheel. It was developed by Horst Leitner while David Turner was working with him. All Turners up to the development of the DHR used the Horst Link.

Specialized Bicycle Components purchased the patents to the link from Horst (using it in their FSR designs) and licensed it to Turner. Citing infringement on their Instant Center Tracking (ICT) patent (due to rocker angle combined with chain-stay angle), Turner licensed the ICT patent from Ellsworth Bicycles for a year.

In October 2005 with an increasingly difficult relationship with Ellsworth, Turner abandoned the use of the Horst/FSR Link. As the Horst/FSR link is required for the ICT patents to be enforceable, eliminating it removed Turner from infringing upon either set of patents. Turner adopted a seat stay link similar to that used on many Kona bikes (called the TNT for differentiation), with positive feedback from the cycling community.
Here's some more info:
Seems others think the Turner TNT design is not as good as the Horst design.
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-145869

Looking at the TNT info on Turner's site, it seems even they are basically saying this new system is the tiniest bit inferior (but they reassure that "you won't even feel it") which basically screams that it's b: Don't want to/can't pay the licensing fee, which is a bummer because it's not like they'll pass any savings on to you or I (and I was dreaming of a 5-spot next year).
Here's a review someone did on MTBR.
This one thinks the TNT is as good a the horst design.
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=146324

After all of this, I can tell you something I can feel is different.
The lower stay is beefier. If you get on rutted or off camber ground you might feel more lateral stiffness, you might not. I could feel it a few times. Not all the time. It is stiffer, but not a night and day difference at all. The HL is plenty stiff. The TNT is laterally stiffer, and some riders might feel it, some might not, the difference is minimal.
I personally prefer to run the TNT rear end. It looks stiffer and cool, It feels stiffer at times, It wont make you go faster, it does not change the shifting, the ride experience is exactly the same-all smiles and lots of fun. Now if DT will put a 12mm axle on it and get King to make a hub for it.....yummy!
P.S.....time to put all this HL vs. TNT to bed. Unless someone can show me a better way to FEEL the difference while riding, I am convinced TNT is perfectly fine, at least as good if not better than the HL was.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for all the feedback. This is 1st time on forum & while the wit abounds, some good stuff comes thru. I'm going to start my research and test these bikes. This is the fun stuff !
 

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Magnetman said:
Thanks for all the feedback. This is 1st time on forum & while the wit abounds, some good stuff comes thru. I'm going to start my research and test these bikes. This is the fun stuff !
Yep.. another vote for RX or Flux. I think that you should try to test them to see how they fit you. Most probably there will be a difference between both bikes (I'm not sure about this, but I'm too lazy now to check the geometry charts).

I haven't ridden either of those bikes, but I've seen a Flux, and I own a Titus Moto Lite, and build quality on both is top notch, so you're getting one of the best bikes out there.

While I'm not too fond of CF, I think that on the seatstays it shouldn't be a problem. If the frame was CF I would be more concerned (but I'm a big guy, so I tend to break stuff if not careful).

Good luck!
 

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Definitely stick with the Titus and Turner options. They are among the very best 4" bikes out there. I'll send you a PM or post something here if I hear of any crazy sales or of anyone selling a good used outside of mtbr. Also chk the classifieds here for parts though I always prefer buying new from board vendors. I rarely go anywhere else.
 

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Magnetman said:
I have been a hardtail rider and want to move into FS. Some of my riding includes:
Eastern US Trail Riding (singletrack etc), rocky, rooty. I enjoy standing while hitting the hills and dont like pedal bob, which was a reason a stayed with a hardtail this long, but now i see lockout options in the rear and front shocks, so i figured that bob is diminished.
Long endurance rides: (ie, White Rim Trail, Kokopelli, Denali National Park) - These were done while i pulled a Bob from my Hardtail. I may still do these rides with my hardtail if need be, but after 8 hours in the saddle, i'm a bit beat up.
Here's my question. I am currently looking at XC full suspension bikes, figuring they are closest to my style of riding. So i was looking to get some feedback on the following bikes:
Specialized Epic Disk (w/Brain)
Titus Racer X
Turner Flux
Cannondale Scalpel
Any feedback is appreciated.
Of those you listed, I'd go with the flux. I think the Cannondale Rush is closer to the flux than the Scalpel is. Personally, I'd look into a Yeti ASR-RL.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
After some additional research, i discovered the Ventana Saltamontes. I believe this is a XC bike with a bit of trail bike behavior.
I was impressed by the MTB Reviews on this frame. Any feedback on its comparison to the Titus Racer X and Turner Flux will most appreciated.
thanks,
 

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Titus Turner Ventana comparos

You can do a search and get many results for your comparison.
For example
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=163254&highlight=racer+x+saltamontes

Notice how the comments vary depending on which forum you are in.

You can probably add several more bikes to your quest and make the process that muchg more difficult. Too bad it's so hard to try them all with the perfect setup for you before you buy one.
Keep in mind that you're not getting married to the frame and they are easily bought and sold these days.

I would go alphabetically and pick the Titus before the Turner and Ventana. Or flip a coin or draw straws. All are excellent bikes. Prices do vary.
 

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Fo' Bidniz in da haus
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Magnetman said:
After some additional research, i discovered the Ventana Saltamontes. I believe this is a XC bike with a bit of trail bike behavior.
I was impressed by the MTB Reviews on this frame. Any feedback on its comparison to the Titus Racer X and Turner Flux will most appreciated.
thanks,
as other have said, you are comparing 3 great apples to one another....none is "best", period.

personally, i would go Ventana for sure now that you mention it but that is based on my preferences based on my riding style....results may vary. flip a 3-sided coin. at least of the companies making 4" bikes, you picked my 3 favorite :)
 

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The Ventana is definitely at the top of the heap when it comes to bikes and the El Salt when it comes to XC bikes that can also double as agressive trail bikes. It is a really well built bike that is still light and stiff. It boasts great construction, has a high BB, and generally feels very solid. If you're used to a super-low BB height, it may take a few rides to adjust since it may feel taller in sharp turns. Once you do adjust, your confidence keeps rising because there is no flex in the frame and it distributes the front-rear weight very well so the high BB height isn't a problem and becomes an advantage on technical trails. It can pretty much do anything you want it to and is the most "All-Mountain" one of the three by a little bit. It actually compares closer to the Motolite than the Racer-X, in my opinion, and has a suspension feel that is also closer to the 2006 5" ML.

Something several riders do is eventually swap the 4" rockers with 5" rockers and then run the fork anywhere between 100 and 120mm so if you get this one, definitely get an adjustable fork if you think you may consider doing this rocker swap at some point.
 

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