[Tacoland]

Does anyone know if there are Ti springs available for the 04 Z1 FR?

 

[Blue Shorts]

Does anyone know if there are Ti springs available for the 04 Z1 FR?

I've never heard of them. It doesn't make sense to put ti springs in an 04 Z1 FR. The springs are pretty light as it is. Most of the weight is in the crown and lowers. You'll save so little weight that it won't be worth it.

 

[MK_]

You can get a upper assembly from an AM fork and transfer the rest from your Z1, main difference being the crown. This costs about $150 and saves a little bit of weight. You could also get lowers off of AM2 or 3, whichever ones are black, and save another little bit.

_MK

 

[SSINGA]

You can get a upper assembly from an AM fork and transfer the rest from your Z1, main difference being the crown. This costs about $150 and saves a little bit of weight. You could also get lowers off of AM2 or 3, whichever ones are black, and save another little bit.

_MK

Close - the Std QR lowers and the 20mm thru axle lowers (both 2005 vintage) have the same weight of 1.56lbs. The AM series crown, steer tube and stanchion assemblies are .26lbs lighter than the Z1 series. 1.96lbs for the AM vs. 2.22lbs for the Z1.

 

[robsetsfire]

Close - the Std QR lowers and the 20mm thru axle lowers (both 2005 vintage) have the same weight of 1.56lbs. The AM series crown, steer tube and stanchion assemblies are .26lbs lighter than the Z1 series. 1.96lbs for the AM vs. 2.22lbs for the Z1.

I was looking at making a ZAM1 or ZAM SL, but I'm thinking now that pulling the one spring out of the HCSV side will be sufficient and cost less... won't be as cool as your ZAM1 though.

I talked to Marzocchi at Sea Otter and they said that something along those lines (ZAM 1/SL) "may be in the works". So I would expect to see an air FR fork for 06.

Funny. You have the exact same bike stand and digital alpine scale that I have.

 

[MK_]

I was looking at making a ZAM1 or ZAM SL, but I'm thinking now that pulling the one spring out of the HCSV side will be sufficient and cost less... won't be as cool as your ZAM1 though...

Two things you should keep in mind when you do this. First, people have reported a significantly inverior performace when the spring is removed (particularly if you weight over 150 or 160lbs), the biggest drawback being very significant brake dive. Second, if you pump up more than 50psi of air you're going to blow the seals. Weight saving is very minor.

_MK

 

[MarzocchiFork]

Is there a company that makes softer springs for the Z1? Marzocchi only makes heavier springs. Im a lightweight and dont like the way the fork handles with only air in the HSCV side. Has anyone tried running one firm spring?

 

[SSINGA]

I was looking at making a ZAM1 or ZAM SL, but I'm thinking now that pulling the one spring out of the HCSV side will be sufficient and cost less... won't be as cool as your ZAM1 though.

I talked to Marzocchi at Sea Otter and they said that something along those lines (ZAM 1/SL) "may be in the works". So I would expect to see an air FR fork for 06.

Funny. You have the exact same bike stand and digital alpine scale that I have.

I'm glad I could do there market research and testing for them. I want royalities!!!!! I really like the performance my ZAM1 and I'm sure an air version would be great for lighter riders.

That stand won't die - I've had that thing since 94-95. It has some rust and the blue bushing is starting to tear, but it still works well.

 

[robsetsfire]

I'm glad I could do there market research and testing for them. I want royalities!!!!! I really like the performance my ZAM1 and I'm sure an air version would be great for lighter riders.

That stand won't die - I've had that thing since 94-95. It has some rust and the blue bushing is starting to tear, but it still works well.

Yeah... I've had mine since around 2000, but we found it in my friend's garage of some rental house in San Luis Obispo and no one knew who's it was...

Two things you should keep in mind when you do this. First, people have reported a significantly inverior performace when the spring is removed (particularly if you weight over 150 or 160lbs), the biggest drawback being very significant brake dive. Second, if you pump up more than 50psi of air you're going to blow the seals. Weight saving is very minor.

_MK

I don't think I completely agree. I did this with my 04 Z1 and it took a few tries to get the oil level correct, but it performed well. I didn't have any problems with brake dive or loss of small bump sensetivity. Marzocchi indicates on all their 32mm sized forks, for an air spring side (not air assist) that heavy riders can use up to 65psi. There isn't any difference between the seals on a Z1SL and a Z1FR. You will not blow the seals if you have the oil level set properly. Whoever you saw with one that was getting "very significant brake dive" did not have it set up correctly.

In truth, the savings is very small. Only the spring and a small amount of oil. But for the tinkers out there it's fun and if done correctly can give you more tuning options.

 

[Blue Shorts]

Air Spring vs Air Assist

Marzocchi indicates on all their 32mm sized forks, for an air spring side (not air assist) that heavy riders can use up to 65psi. There isn't any difference between the seals on a Z1SL and a Z1FR. You will not blow the seals if you have the oil level set properly. Whoever you saw with one that was getting "very significant brake dive" did not have it set up correctly.

Could you define what you mean by air spring and air assist?

I have an '03 Z1FR and I've been considering removing one spring and adding an air cap. I already purchased the cap, but haven't tried it yet. The stock springs are a bit too heavy for me.

When talking about the Z1FR, what's the diff between air assist / air spring? You either add air or you don't. I'm confused.

 

[MK_]

Could you define what you mean by air spring and air assist?...

Air assist is when you have a coil spring in there, but still add some air to fine tune the fork, analogous to preload. Air spring is when coil is removed and air is used exclusively.

_MK

 

[kneecap]

I'm a little suprised w/ posters responses " Z1spring weight is small". As an example the new marathon SL weighs 290grams less than the marathon XC which has only 1 spring, & thats with 30mm stantions, smaller than the Z1's 32mm. These marathon forks have the same chassis, & although there may be some other small differences I'm not aware of, seems to me 2/3 lbs. (for an even smaller spring) ain't nothen to sneeze at?

 

[Tacoland]

I'm a little suprised w/ posters responses " Z1spring weight is small". As an example the new marathon SL weighs 290grams less than the marathon XC which has only 1 spring, & thats with 30mm stantions, smaller than the Z1's 32mm. These marathon forks have the same chassis, & although there may be some other small differences I'm not aware of, seems to me 2/3 lbs. (for an even smaller spring) ain't nothen to sneeze at?

Yeah, the reason I asked about Ti is because when I was changing out the oil the other night, I noticed that the springs felt really quite heavy.

I've searched the internet for Ti springs to no avail.

 

[Blue Shorts]

I'm a little suprised w/ posters responses " Z1spring weight is small". As an example the new marathon SL weighs 290grams less than the marathon XC which has only 1 spring, & thats with 30mm stantions, smaller than the Z1's 32mm. These marathon forks have the same chassis, & although there may be some other small differences I'm not aware of, seems to me 2/3 lbs. (for an even smaller spring) ain't nothen to sneeze at?

First of all....comparing spring weights by comparing 2 different forks is worthless.

Secondly, whatever the weights of the springs...Changing to ti will only save about 45% of the original weight (maximum). Even using your example, changing to ti springs will save about a quarter of a pound.

I'll weight my Z1 springs and post. I'll bet the total savings of changing to ti springs is only 2 or 3 ounces...tops. That amounts to approximately a whopping 3% (or less) total weight savings. A totally worthless upgrade unless you just want to tell people that you have ti springs.

 

[Blue Shorts]

Air assist is when you have a coil spring in there, but still add some air to fine tune the fork, analogous to preload. Air spring is when coil is removed and air is used exclusively.

_MK

Thanks....I must've had a brain fart.

 

[mtn hack]

First of all....comparing spring weights by comparing 2 different forks is worthless.

Secondly, whatever the weights of the springs...Changing to ti will only save about 45% of the original weight (maximum). Even using your example, changing to ti springs will save about a quarter of a pound.

I'll weight my Z1 springs and post. I'll bet the total savings of changing to ti springs is only 2 or 3 ounces...tops. That amounts to approximately a whopping 3% (or less) total weight savings. A totally worthless upgrade unless you just want to tell people that you have ti springs.

You have no idea what the actual weight savings would be unless you have the springs in hand. And if it were a quarter pound per spring, that would be 1/2 lb total and nearly 10% overall weight savings. You can't tell me you wouldn't want to save a 1/2 lb off your ride weight, especially if there was no performance loss.

 

[Blue Shorts]

You have no idea what the actual weight savings would be unless you have the springs in hand. And if it were a quarter pound per spring, that would be 1/2 lb total and nearly 10% overall weight savings. You can't tell me you wouldn't want to save a 1/2 lb off your ride weight, especially if there was no performance loss.

Actually...if you check around (and I did) at all of the posts and advertisements for ti springs, you'll notice that even the manufacturers will say that you can save "up to 50%". That's with heavy coil springs. The typical weight savings is closer to 35-40%.

I will weigh the Z1 spings.

Saving 1/2 pound is pie in the sky optimistic, imo. I've remove the springs form my Z1Fr on quite a few occasions and they don't weigh anywhere near a pound.

...but, I'll withhold any additional comments until I have weighed the springs.

Do you know what ti forks springs weigh for Marzocchi (assuming they're even available)?

 

[robsetsfire]

You have no idea what the actual weight savings would be unless you have the springs in hand. And if it were a quarter pound per spring, that would be 1/2 lb total and nearly 10% overall weight savings. You can't tell me you wouldn't want to save a 1/2 lb off your ride weight, especially if there was no performance loss.

Right, but you don't want to remove both. If you remove the one from the ETA side, the ETA won't have any travel when locked out. Chances are that you will have to lower the oil level too far and the ETA may not even lock down. I played around with an older 01 MCR and the ECC wouldn't work if the oil height was lowered. It didn't take much less oil for the ECC to not lock down. Marzocchi doesn't recommend removing the spring in the ETA side and doesn't sell an air fork that uses ETA. They are either ECC5 or TST.

 

[Blue Shorts]

Right, but you don't want to remove both. If you remove the one from the ETA side, the ETA won't have any travel when locked out. Chances are that you will have to lower the oil level too far and the ETA may not even lock down. I played around with an older 01 MCR and the ECC wouldn't work if the oil height was lowered. It didn't take much less oil for the ECC to not lock down. Marzocchi doesn't recommend removing the spring in the ETA side and doesn't sell an air fork that uses ETA. They are either ECC5 or TST.

The discussion is aobut weight savings realized by replacing the stock springs with ti springs.....not removing springs.

 

[scrublover]

The discussion is aobut weight savings realized by replacing the stock springs with ti springs.....not removing springs.

wow. panties in a wad, much? i'll give you the standard: no one is forcing you to read/reply here.... now they're just talking about other options. if the original poster is unhappy with other options discussed in his thread, perhaps he should say so, rather than have you whining about it.

it's been well established that there are no ti coils currently made to fit the Z-1 (unless you spring big money on something custom/one off, or modify something else.) not really alot of ways to save too much weight on the Z-1 without spending a fair amount of money, in which case it may be better off to go for a newer/lighter fork in the first place.

FWIW, I ran one spring only in my 04 Z1-FR, and loved it. Granted, I'm only 140# soaking wet. A Z-150 currently on another bike is running full air in both legs, no coils at all. The ETA still functions as it did with the coil in on that side. I dropped about 200gms off the fork by doing that, and it works well *for me*.