[stiingya]

Granted this is very terrain dependent along with being determined by rider ability. BUT... I find that on average trails I seem to be a lot faster overall on the Phantom. Sure on climbs that makes perfect sense. But it's amazing to me how much more speed/momentum I seem to retain or seem to pick back up faster on the Phantom in general. Now I don't do STRAVA or any of that and haven't owned a bike computer since back in the day when they weren't actually computers yet! So I don't have any data to prove it. I've been meaning to at least use my phone to time it and hit the same trails and get some data to look at. But I never think about it till I'm already out riding and then too late to time it.

I mean the Titan bombs the downs, handles the chunk way better is more composed and is way faster when your going FAST! And for sure I very often go "too fast too long" and then have to break too hard and kill all my speed/momentum and then have to "start over". So for sure skill is apart of this. (and common sense) I intended to be at the bike park way more this summer and that didn't happen. And when on regular multi use trails you can only go SO FAST knowing someone might be around a blind corner, etc. And then in the tight twisties, dodging tree's with your pinkies, etc. There is just a limit to how fast I can go? Side note; I know someone who spent a whole day waiting to get into the emergency room with a bone sticking out of their thight from a ladder fall because Covid has our ER's over booked. So I'm considering that again like I was last year and trying to keep my riding fairly chill anyway. So for sure the Titan is getting robbed a bit.

I guess because of that XC bike on an Enduro course thread and because of all the talk on bike weight of late it's made me think about it lately. Bike weight as part of total weight and not making as much of a difference as we think it does makes total sense. But then the idea that climbing takes more time then descending. So a bike that climbs faster has a bigger speed advantage then a bike that descends faster. (though it's funny because those two topics seem to contradict some)

Anyway... It's not like "being FAST" is all that important to me. It's just one of those things that pops in my head while riding and I was just wondering if anyone else has the same experience?

 

[taiki]

Terrain and skill are the biggest factors, if you are riding undulating terrain of course the Phantom will be faster as it will accelerate faster up punchy climbs. However if your terrain is more of a long steep grind climb to a long steep chunky descent, the Titan will pull ahead.

Also if you aren't doing any type of timing to confirm your thoughts consider that you may just feel like you are going slower on the Titan since it's a more stable bike. Kinda like how 60 can feel like a 100 in small light car

Are both of your bikes 29/29? I tried the whole mullet thing on both bikes and found it made them slower

 

[stiingya]

For sure terrain and skill, and for sure could all be in my head! I did tonight time a trail, however it's just desert jeep double track that's close to the house. 4.6miles 28 minutes 10.3 seconds on the titan. No idea of the elevation change, it's not that much whatever it is. And obviously I'm not fast myself! Not the kind of trail in the trees with tight twisties or blind corners like this weekend.. I went out to a flat tire on the Phantom and wanted to get in as much riding as I could before it got dark so took the Titan and remembered to time it. I'll hit the same trail later this week on the Phantom and time it for comparison. But will need to repeat the test on the kind of terrain from this weekend some day.

I never did actual timed rides between mullet and 29/29 on the Phantom. But I was aware of the time from looking at texts and how long my audio book ran and even though I seemed faster 29/29 I thought I was actually faster mullet with 2.8/2.6 tires. But that too could be in my head and I wasn't intent on making sure I rode the exact same routes, etc.

But I guess if I'm going to ponder this stuff it would make more sense to get the data and find out one way or the other... for sure tonight's ride was an out and back, and I thought I was much slower on the way back but the time was 14 minutes something both ways.

OK, this is pretty funny. I have the trailforks app on my phone from like 2-3 years ago. But I've never used it. Any other app recommendations for people who don't really want to Strava? I don't know if I want to Outside+ to keep using the trailforks app past next week?

 

[taiki]

Don't support Outside by giving them money, I use Strava with heatmaps turned off and don't use it at all on sensitive trails/zones. You can also use Strava and save the rides so only you can view them so they don't get published to the public

 

[stiingya]

Well I can't blame people for wanting to make money? It is what it is...?

At any rate, I rode the same trail today on the Phantom. I was thinking I'd be slower because my allergies are killing me and I am all hoped up on antihistamines. Almost didn't ride, but went ahead. So interestingly enough, I was a whole minute slower on the "out". But faster on the "back" making up that time and ended up just about the same overall time.

SO that told me nothing. I mean if I was that much faster on the way back that makes me question if I had a headwind when I was on the titan last time? OR was it just the medication slowing me down at first and by the time I was on the way back I was "out of the fog"?? IDK But too small of a data set to be worth anything anyway?

Anyway. I did enjoy trying to "race myself" and can see why so many people are attracted to the whole concept. Don't think I want to go all in with a bike computer and all that at this point? But I may use the rest of my 5 free PRO days on the trail forks app at least!

 

[yo_eddie]

Without data, the difference in speed is difficult to judge. When I switched from my V2 Spitfire to the V3 Prime, I was absolutely sure that the Prime was kind of a sluggish battleship on a tight, twisty trail I frequently ride. On the Spitfire it always felt like a blast and way faster.
Strava (I use only the free version of it and nothing of these community functions) proved me wrong - the Prime was faster even on the first attempt and not even trying to ride really fast. So perceived speed differs most likely from actual speed.

If you don't want to use Strava, just log your rides. I use Oruxmaps (free version) on my phone for this purpose. After the ride you can also import the data for example to Garmin Basecamp to analyze your ride.

In the end, riding bikes should be for the fun of it - but the tinkerer in me "just wants to know" 😜

 

[MyDadSucks]

ive ridden a number of trails on both the phantom and titan, and for many trails its pretty even, the phantom will actually be faster occasionally. BUT the titan really takes off when the trail is physical and steep or if there is any chance of high speed. the phantom can handle steep trails that aren't chunky, and it can handle chunky trails that arent steep, but it isn't the best at either of them and it doesn't like to handle both at the same time. Surprisingly though, there is very little difference between the two bikes in terms of climbing time (a 2.5 mile 1000ft road climb, both take about 22 minutes).

I also went out and did a 47mi / 9100ft ride a couple weeks back, on the titan. After that (and how well the bike performed considering the variety of trails), i kind of don't see a point in having both, and took my phantom apart to build up something else. The phantom definitely still has a place, and there are plenty of trails where it would be faster, but i'll put it back together when i feel like riding those trails i guess.

 

[yo_eddie]

I also went out and did a 47mi / 9100ft ride a couple weeks back, on the titan.

You did... WHAT? 😳
That's over 3000 metres of climbing - wow....

 

[Xavier0905]

I rode a phantom for the last 6 months, and I have a Titan on a way!
I may try to do similar loops to see how these two differ! I almost rode exclusively the same two areas with the phantom. I should have a fairly representative sample!