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Time for new spokes or a whole new wheelset?

1622 Views 18 Replies 11 Participants Last post by  *OneSpeed*
Earlier this year I bought a used set of DT Swiss XR361 rims laced to 350's. A few months into my ownership they started pinging and tinging on climbs and while pedaling hard. I took them in to get them trued and tensioned and lo and behold the spokes well pretty well out of tension, very low. Since then I've put maybe 1000 miles on them and the noises are back even after I've lubed the spokes and nipples with some grease. Tension on both drive and non drive side remain within spec and it's pinging and tinging time again. Mostly on the rear.

I did a little bit of reading and saw that spokes do eventually wear out. My question is what's my best option for what's going on?

  • Ride it till it breaks then replace the spokes
  • Replace just the spokes and nipples
  • Replace the whole shebang
  • Keep the hubs and replace everything else - does anything on a hub besides the bearings wear out?

I'm not sure what the effective life of a hub and rim are, but the bearings in mine seem to be smooth and I don't see any visible cracking on the rim.

Thoughts?
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Spokes really should not wear out, unless you are stretching them past their elastic limits. If the wheel is built correctly, they are not being stretched past their elastic limits. Hard riding could theoretically do it, but again, when built properly that tends to spread the stresses out properly so one spoke does not become overstressed. The kind of "hard riding" that would do it would result in a wildly warped wheel. The spokes suspend the hubs and if they are stretched past their elastic limits, they may break or snap. That's how you know they've worn out, but again, if built correctly, this is rarely a problem. I've built many wheels and never had a "pinging" problem. A long time ago I used to have spokes go loose, that can happen from taking a hit and bending the rim, or from not properly building the wheel. If it's the first situation with a properly built wheel, then it means you need a stronger wheel (rims, spokes and nipples) for the riding you do. 1000 miles is nothing in the sense of a good built wheel. I will often do that in just a couple months.

If something is pinging, it should be some sort of a red flag IMO. It means there's a crack somewhere, something is loose, something is worn out. Wheel bearings? Freehub bearing? A spoke hole? I don't know, but there's got to be reason why. Except for a few limited situations with bladed spokes, wheels don't "ping" if they are built right and everything else is functioning.

You may just be better off replacing the whole thing if you aren't very experienced with wheels and can't find a competent shop (sometimes that's a lot harder than it sounds or should be). I'd want to know why and I'd want to fix it, but I'm very comfortable building and re-building wheels. It's time-consuming though and it's hard to diagnose something remotely.
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In my experience, 2nd hand wheels are a total crapshoot. There is no good way to know the history of the wheel or if it was well built to begin with. I can true a seriously bent rim and it looks reasonable til you throw a tensionometer on it.

Pinging to me generally means a tension issue. Greasing spokes isn't really a solution. Something like spokeprep is more appropriate.

Personally, I'd throw the wheel up on a stand and figure out what is up. If you don't have the tools and experience for that, I'd continue putting up with the pinging while I looked for a new wheel or wheelset. The labor costs with troubleshooting, rebuilding, and sourcing parts for the old hubset will make finding a good deal on prebuilt wheels appealing.
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I did a little bit of reading and saw that spokes do eventually wear out.
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Thoughts?
That's a Fairy tale ... read something else.
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Also give a quick glance and see if one or more spokes were incorrectly laced - perhaps someone replaced a broken spoke and did not overlap the new spoke correctly.
Loosen all spokes and rebuild with new nipples.
Fixed.
Start by having your wheels trued again. It's not uncommon for spokes to need adjustment after 1000 miles. DT Swiss 350s are great hubs, so you may also want to have them services while your at it. A few damaged spokes can be replaced, but many shops won't rebuild a wheel with a used rim.

Wheel building is an art and you definitely get what you pay for. If you've ridden 1000 miles this year, I recommend having a reputable builder rebuild your 350s with a little wider rim.
What kind of riding are you doing and what's the terrain like (XC, downhill, etc)? I can do your average maintenance (bleed brakes, change tires, etc) but 'm not a mechanic and wouldn't even know where to begin if trying to diagnose and repair. Therefore, I'd take it to my LBS (who I trust and has a great reputation) and have them take a look. Lotta guys know how to do this stuff and enjoy it, lotta guys don't though. Since I don't, I'd be forced to defer to their expertise. And if there's still pinging going on, then yeah, I'd keep the hubs and replace the rim/spokes. Might be a waste of money, but time is money and I'm not willing to risk breaking my neck out in the trails cause my rims gave out on me. It's just not worth it to me.
Thanks for the solid info. Sounds like I'm due for a new wheelset. I'll take them back once more to the shop that I had them trued up at and see what they say about checking tension again. If it's a no go then I'll have a new rim, spokes and nipples ordered and build up a new set.

Thanks for the thoughts all
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I don't think you're supposed to lube the nips with grease, you want them to stay-put and not spin too easily to maintain tension.
I use the old school method of using boiled linseed oil as a 'spoke prep', there are lots of newer spoke preps, but boiled linseed oil works well for me, it's sort of an old school 'loc tite' that dries enough to keep the nips in place, but you can still turn them for truing. DT spokes and nips are among the highest quality, they should last a really long time. Even alloy nips last a long long time, corrosion is their biggest enemy over time.
I don't think you're supposed to lube the nips with grease, you want them to stay-put and not spin too easily to maintain tension.
I use the old school method of using boiled linseed oil as a 'spoke prep', there are lots of newer spoke preps, but boiled linseed oil works well for me, it's sort of an old school 'loc tite' that dries enough to keep the nips in place, but you can still turn them for truing. DT spokes and nips are among the highest quality, they should last a really long time. Even alloy nips last a long long time, corrosion is their biggest enemy over time.
Having built a couple dozen wheels, I will never use alloy nipples in any environment where there's road salt.
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Old wives tale. No need for anything that locks the nipples in any way.

I use oil, actually it's chain lube. Remarkably my wheels have never exploded. ;)
Well, DT Swiss Pro Lock nipples come with threadlocker pre-installed, but I agree, I've had luck with and without thread prep/thread locker.
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Redacted.

And we're done here. This topic has nothing to do with this thread.
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