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carpe mañana
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There's a thread going on at the shock forum about a Ti spring upgrade for the Z1. I called up Renton Coil Spring, who makes custom Ti springs and asked how much it is to develop and what the cost is. Turns out that if 20 sets were ordered they would go for ~$75 a spring, cheaper if there's more interest. Keeping in mind the appetite for upgrades and frankenforking on this forum, I am openly asking if there is any interest. I am interested in getting a set for my 2004 Z1 FR, and I am wondering if AM1 (the 110-130 version) uses the same spring? And whether there are others? (JNC, SSINGA?) Any interest?

_MK
 

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carpe mañana
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·

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No, that's not phonetic
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Have you ever worn out a spring? I have a first generation Vanilla RLC on which I have worn the stanchion coating off from too many miles, and I cannot tell the spring is getting tired. I don't mean to poop on anyone's enthusiasm for upgrades (least of all yours), but this one seems a bit wacky.

I wonder why a fork spring costs $75 a pop and a rear shock spring is a fat $200?
 

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carpe mañana
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I don't know, 30-50% off the steel weight ;) Do you by any chance have the weight measurements of the springs inside the fork?

_MK
 

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carpe mañana
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I definatelly am not interested for the sake of the life of the sping, rather the weight. But the do get tired, although it is easily circumvented by adding more preload. I can't say that I have owned any fork long enough to experience it, and I never had a coil over rear.

The engineer at RCS told me that it will cost around $1000 if I only get two, which includes the cost of development, however, at quantity of 20 sets, it is rather affordable.

_MK
 

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No, that's not phonetic
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What spring rate would you be after? Just replace stock? Seems like there are a few heavy guys here who need a bit more boing, and the higher the spring rate the more the absolute weight savings become. I bet they would need to charge the R&D cost for every rate (say, soft, stock, and firm).

It's also funny that they would say, "sure, well do a little run of a custom fork springs asap," but they can't get their act together for a couple of years at a time to do a run of Romic or Fox springs?
 

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carpe mañana
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
tscheezy said:
What spring rate would you be after? Just replace stock? ...
Good point. I would be after stock. I don't know about extra R&D cost, because the engineer told me that they will need to have a fork sent over so that they can work with it. I wonder if they just need to measure the internals, etc and design a spring from that on some CAD software and making a heavier spring just means increasing material somewhere. This warrants a call. I can't comment on the Romic/Fox thing, all I can say is that the guy was very willing to work on this. Maybe they're trying to increase their product line, since all they offer so far is Dorado springs.

_MK
 

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Not just famous; infamous
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MK_ said:
I don't know, 30-50% off the steel weight ;) Do you by any chance have the weight measurements of the springs inside the fork?_MK
Marzocchi lists a 250gr difference (about 1/2 lb) between the AM1 ad AMSL. That's probably not just spring weight though since you have different damping systems etc. I really think the 50% is optimistic, it's closer to 25-30%. As for the wear issue, have to agree with Tscheezy: have you ever even heard of anybody wearing out a steel spring on a bicycle suspension?? Cars & trucks, yes, bikes, no. But, it would be a nice little secret bling item :p

As another option, why not just buy the air caps for $35 (I think they're still around) and get rid of the springs if you're concerned about weight?
 

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carpe mañana
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
coolhandluchs said:
As another option, why not just buy the air caps for $35 (I think they're still around) and get rid of the springs if you're concerned about weight?
I don't think that air rides as well as coil, and I don't by any way, shape or fashion want to alter how beatifully this fork works. In the other thread (http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=94017) the discussion still continues and I am awaiting weight measurements. If say a 30% weight saving will amount to ~half a pound, I will be willing to spend my money on the upgrade. But this is contingent on interest from 19 others, so even most optimistically this a a LONG shot that this will ever take off.

_MK
 

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coolhandluchs said:
Marzocchi lists a 250gr difference (about 1/2 lb) between the AM1 ad AMSL. That's probably not just spring weight though since you have different damping systems etc. I really think the 50% is optimistic, it's closer to 25-30%. As for the wear issue, have to agree with Tscheezy: have you ever even heard of anybody wearing out a steel spring on a bicycle suspension?? Cars & trucks, yes, bikes, no. But, it would be a nice little secret bling item :p

As another option, why not just buy the air caps for $35 (I think they're still around) and get rid of the springs if you're concerned about weight?
I'm the one that's causing all of the trouble on the shock board regarding ti springs for a Z1.

I'm also the idiot that offered (why, oh why, did I do that?) to weigh the stock springs on an 03 Z1 FR. I'll be doing that this weekend if someone doesn't do it first. Anyone???

My contention is that the weight savings will be so minimal, that it wouldn't be worth it. Having said that.....I know there will be some that just want ti to have ti.....even if it's hidden in the fork.

If you're right about the 1/2 pound (and also 25% - 30% savings...which I agree with), then the savings will be about 2 ounces....which is less than 3% for the 03 FR and closer to 2% for the 04.

I think I'm gonna try the air cap that I bought and replace 1 spring. I'm just concerned that it won't behave as nicely as the dual coil.
 

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carpe mañana
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Blue Shorts said:
I'm the one that's causing all of the trouble on the shock board regarding ti springs for a Z1...
I sure am awaiting the results of your weight measurement. I just got off the phone with Marzocchi and their news might save me some money. The guy said that each spring is in the vicinity of a quarter pound, so half pound for both, a bit more. So if even 50% weight saving is to be had, that's just quarter pound, ~113grams, that's more than a buck a gram, close to two most likely, so I don't know if I care to shell my money out on the springs. But I am still awaiting your findings, because Marzocchi tech guys don't have a good track record of providing good info.

_MK
 

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MK_ said:
I sure am awaiting the results of your weight measurement. I just got off the phone with Marzocchi and their news might save me some money. The guy said that each spring is in the vicinity of a quarter pound, so half pound for both, a bit more. So if even 50% weight saving is to be had, that's just quarter pound, ~113grams, that's more than a buck a gram, close to two most likely, so I don't know if I care to shell my money out on the springs. But I am still awaiting your findings, because Marzocchi tech guys don't have a good track record of providing good info.

_MK
I committed to weigh them...and I will this weekend. I just hope I don't have to open my mouth to change feet if I was wrong with my assumptions. I went a bit overboard defending them. :rolleyes:

I can weight the standard springs from my '03 Marz Marathon S (105mm). I have 1 stock spring and one lighter spring in a drawer. I can weigh the stock spring and calculate the weight of the other spring based on length. Then I'll just multiply by 1.25 to approximate a 5" spring . I'll try to do that tonight. It should get us into the ballpark.
 

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SSINGA said:
Mmmmmmmmm, A Ti AM1 spring would be sweet! Wonder what the actual weight savings would be?
Slight at best. The AM1 already only has one spring, and you wouldn't be saving much considering that fact.
 

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FleshwoundGravityResearch
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MK_ said:
I sure am awaiting the results of your weight measurement. I just got off the phone with Marzocchi and their news might save me some money. The guy said that each spring is in the vicinity of a quarter pound, so half pound for both, a bit more. So if even 50% weight saving is to be had, that's just quarter pound, ~113grams, that's more than a buck a gram, close to two most likely, so I don't know if I care to shell my money out on the springs. But I am still awaiting your findings, because Marzocchi tech guys don't have a good track record of providing good info.

_MK
Well, I have no Z1 springs to weigh, but I weighed my puny Manitou Black spring this morning on a scientific scale at work and it was 230.4 grams (226.4g = 1/2 lb). Therefore, if the Z1 springs average even the 230 g, a 30-50% titanium weight savings would be 138-230g which is between 4.9 and 8 ounces. I know quite a few guys that tossed away their 220g, $25 aluminum bar in favor of a $125, 130g carbon bar. That's only a 90g weight savings for $100. Worst case scenario here, you are looking to shed 69-115g (1spring) for $75, up to the 138-230g (both springs) for $150.... that seems pretty comparable to me.
 

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carpe mañana
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
mtn hack said:
Well, I have no Z1 springs to weigh, but I weighed my puny Manitou Black spring this morning on a scientific scale at work and it was 230.4 grams (226.4g = 1/2 lb). Therefore, if the Z1 springs average even the 230 g, a 30-50% titanium weight savings would be 138-230g which is between 4.9 and 8 ounces. I know quite a few guys that tossed away their 220g, $25 aluminum bar in favor of a $125, 130g carbon bar. That's only a 90g weight savings for $100. Worst case scenario here, you are looking to shed 69-115g (1spring) up to the 138-230g (both springs) for $150.... that seems pretty comparable to me.
Oh, absolutely, if they Z1 springs are in fact at least half pound a piece, or more, then in my book, this is reason enough to lighten up my wallet. I am holding my horses though, until the Z1 spring weight is known.

_MK
 

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MK_ said:
Oh, absolutely, if they Z1 springs are in fact at least half pound a piece, or more, then in my book, this is reason enough to lighten up my wallet. I am holding my horses though, until the Z1 spring weight is known.

_MK
OK. I weighed the Marathon S spring...the longer one. It weighs 96 grams. 2 springs *1.25 (for longer Z1 length) is 240 grams. Subtract a bit for the second spring (ETA) being shorter and you have around a half pound total....probably a bit less.

So 8 ounces (approx) total with a 30% - 50% (50% is way too high..btw) savings for ti and you get 2.4 - 4 ounce savings...TOTAL, probably closer to the 2.4 number...big savings :rolleyes:

I'll weigh the Z1 springs this weekend, but it sounds like the Zokie guy was close at 1/4 pound per spring.
 

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Blue Shorts said:
...I'll weigh the Z1 springs this weekend, but it sounds like the Zokie guy was close at 1/4 pound per spring.
I have a set of stock '03 Z1 springs sitting in my parts box. I'll weigh and measure them tonight.
I suspect I may soon have the opportunity to weigh the springs on some '05 Zoke forks as well. ;)



 

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carpe mañana
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Bikezilla said:
I have a set of stock '03 Z1 springs sitting in my parts box. I'll weigh and measure them tonight.
Uh Oh, franken' fork comin up, eh? You totally need Ti springs! ;)

_MK
 

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Bikezilla said:
I have a set of stock '03 Z1 springs sitting in my parts box. I'll weigh and measure them tonight


Thanks, Zilla. You'll save me a lot of trouble by doing that. I just serviced my Z1 2 weeks ago. The way I do it....it involves removing the springs twice. Once to add fresh oil...the second time to check levels after a couple of rides. I didn't want to do that a third time. I was planning on servicing my Marathon S this weekend.
 
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