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Discussion Starter #1
Maybe I've got a case of the Mondays because I spent to whole weekend working on my furnace instead of the WWTP frame like I had planned but here it goes....

What characteristics are the most uninteresting to a real frame builder?

I'm not real frame builder but these two are on the top of my list:

1. Raw Finish--should really be called "unfinished" because there's none or to put it another way, not completed. Putting clear coat on polished metal is not a finish, it's a metal prep for a finish. I suppose there's a place for it on a first rig or two if you think you're going to break it or just experimenting, but really, on a bike you want to ride?

2. Frames made of food. I don't care if Pandas are cute and cuddly looking to you, a frame shouldn't be made out of something they eat (and I realize they eat different bamboo than what folks are making frames out of but still).

3. Hipster mismatched stuff on purpose. 1 spoked wheel and one composite wheel looks stupid on a fixie with an orange tire and purple grips and green something else. The only thing dumber looking is typically the rider.

What are your three?
 

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Thats easy,
Intricate logos or headbadges adorning untested product.
Poking fun at anyone elses hobby or medium of choice for said hobby
People who post cruddy posts before thier second cup of coffee
 

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jay_ntwr said:
1. Raw Finish--should really be called "unfinished"

2. Frames made of food.
1) You must hate stainless, Ti, and anodized aluminum bikes too then:) A clear coating is still a coating. Actually takes more effort to get the underlying prep right to show off your handiwork. You can't hide less than perfect workmanship vs a thick colored powder. Grey is still a color!

2) Why are you making steel bikes? I eat quite a bit of iron every day:thumbsup:
 

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A *good* raw finish takes more time/skill/chops than most color jobs. Not everyone's cup of tea, but for the same reasons you may like one color over another. Paint hides a lot. I'm with you on the other two.

-Schmitty-
 

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These days, anything with a fixed wheel, a rack, or fenders is just boring. Overdone, uninspired and never really used for real. Really pretty paint is boring too. I'm really sick of $1000 or paint covering $350 of garbage.
 

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you said uninteresting, yet you have a lot to say about your 3 choices and seem irritated rather than bored by them.

uninteresting:

1.) frames with nothing to distinguish them from one that came out of a factory. Nothing against them at all. I've built one that way that was a piece of pride for me in that it had nothing wrong with it.

2.) Frames that were not built with the intention that they be ridden.

3.) Frames with features that are different from the norm, but have not been evaluated to verify their utility (see #2 above).
 

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Discussion Starter #7
smdubovsky said:
1) You must hate stainless, Ti, and anodized aluminum bikes too then:) A clear coating is still a coating. Actually takes more effort to get the underlying prep right to show off your handiwork. You can't hide less than perfect workmanship vs a thick colored powder. Grey is still a color!

2) Why are you making steel bikes? I eat quite a bit of iron every day:thumbsup:
LOL, actually, I do like a good naked Ti and SS rig. Those two seem appropriate when naked.
 

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Any metal can look good if the imperfections are carefully taken down and then it's given a smooth finish with fine abrasives.

Shown above is a cast-iron Chevy block with aluminum heads that I polished with abrasives. There are more pictures of it here.

Right now my car and my truck are both in bare metal. I use this to protect any bare metal.
 

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pvd said:
These days, anything with a fixed wheel, a rack, or fenders is just boring. Overdone, uninspired and never really used for real. Really pretty paint is boring too. I'm really sick of $1000 or paint covering $350 of garbage.

I think this kind of rack and fenders needs to come back.....

-Schmitty-
 

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I want Soulcraft to build my next bike.

From Soulcraft's blog:

"I’ve seen a lot of trends come and go over the 20 years since I began working in frame shops and building frames, and over the 10 years since starting Soulcraft, the industry’s increasing emphasis on aesthetics seems to have overshadowed engineering and craftsmanship. It’s high time we returned to embracing the bicycle for what it is; a simple and efficient tool.Our focus is making better frames; built to be ridden rather than idolized, not something to be coveted for what they are, but for what they can do. The goal is always “build it quicker, build it better”, and we achieve it by investing in machinery, fixtures, materials, and by designing new construction processes and more accurate fitting methods. Then we move the goal post and start all over again, constantly moving forward. All so your bike can do whatever it is you ask of it, and do it well. "

Amen.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Vlad said:
"I’ve seen a lot of trends come and go over the 20 years since I began working in frame shops and building frames, and over the 10 years since starting Soulcraft, the industry’s increasing emphasis on aesthetics seems to have overshadowed engineering and craftsmanship..
Shawn built me my first custom frame. He's a great guy and I certainly was excited to get that bike. I will say that I think you can "have it all" and that's the reason I'm doing my own this go around. Engineering and Craftsmanship are two legs of the stool and Aesthetics count as the third leg IMHO.

But that's what's nice about custom, you can have whatever you want.

Also, I'm sorry for starting this thread. I was having a terrible day for several different reasons and it was a perfect storm of a lot of bad things happening all at one time. :madman:

If you like raw bikes, go for it, I don't have to like them and you don't have to like mine. We can agree to disagree. Same with bikes made out of Panda Food, Hemp, and Epoxy--I don't like them but if it's your thing, have fun with it. The mismatched wannabe hipster fixie is still stupid though ;)

Seriously though, everyone on here has been great to me over the past year and I sincerely apologize for starting a rant in this forum. It won't happen again.
 

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I love racks and fenders. Both of these make bikes more useful and more enjoyable. I'm years past the weight-weenie thing, I just like to ride. Bikes that can't fit fenders and racks are silly.
 

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Yeah, I think it's asinine that so few bikes come with fender/rack braze-ons now. So many bikes end up being pressed into service as commuters, especially when they're a few years older, and it's a real pain to use hose clamps or seatpost mounts. I don't drive, so every bike I own ends up being basic transportation at least part of the time. I hear you on the "pretty paint" thing, though. It just makes people baby their bikes too much.
 

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jay_ntwr said:
Maybe I've got a case of the Mondays because I spent to whole weekend working on my furnace instead of the WWTP frame like I had planned but here it goes....

What characteristics are the most uninteresting to a real frame builder?

I'm not real frame builder but these two are on the top of my list:

1. Raw Finish--should really be called "unfinished" because there's none or to put it another way, not completed. Putting clear coat on polished metal is not a finish, it's a metal prep for a finish. I suppose there's a place for it on a first rig or two if you think you're going to break it or just experimenting, but really, on a bike you want to ride?

2. Frames made of food. I don't care if Pandas are cute and cuddly looking to you, a frame shouldn't be made out of something they eat (and I realize they eat different bamboo than what folks are making frames out of but still).

3. Hipster mismatched stuff on purpose. 1 spoked wheel and one composite wheel looks stupid on a fixie with an orange tire and purple grips and green something else. The only thing dumber looking is typically the rider.

What are your three?
I can not tell you what frames I find uninteresting because I can not remember what they were.
 

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Schmitty said:
Rich Cast......

-Schmitty-
Amazing memory man! You must not have partied as much as the rest of us! I remember him too, but couldn't remember his name. That old magazine was great too.
Back to lurking on this forum...
 
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