The Salsa Fargo Thread

Rawland Fall Tour

Well, I don't know if this is considered "cheeky" or not, but here is my Salsa Cycles Fargo as I rode it at the Rawland Fall Tour. Put on by Rawland Cycles, the ride was a route through some scenic South-Central Minnesota hill country. You can check out my story from the ride here: http://g-tedproductions.blogspot.com/2010/10/rawland-fall-tour-report-in-photos.html

Why are the bars so high?

So many people seem to be confused by the dirt drops. I think there is a misunderstanding of what they are, or maybe I misunderstand. To me dirt drops like the woodchipper and the midge are basically moustache bars. They allow you to ride with your wrists sitting in a more natural position (in angle, not height). The Surly Open bar is a great example of the same thing without the confusion of looking similar to road bars. The way I see it they aren't drop bars at all, they arent really meant to be used for multiple hand positions or aerodynamic riding. However, unlike the Open bar you can actually hold the flat for a less aggressive stance, since they're designed for long rides on bikes like the Fargo that's a good thing when you're grinding gravel between bouts of singletrack. They're like moustache bars with a "relax mode" appendage sticking up from them- which is why they seem so high. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Personally I don't really like the dirt drops. They weren't what I needed for my purposes at least. I needed to have a road bar for making time on the open road, that would give me all the same control on singletrack and bushwacking. The problem with normal road drops is that the flat is not as long as flat bars, your hands end up closer together and you have less stability, but if you ride in the drops (directly below the tops) your wrists end up bending around the tops as the bike jostles over everything. Flared rando-type bars like the Bell Laps are headed in the right direction but only one bar out there handles roads like a racer and has an appetite for DH: The WTB Mountain Road Drop Bar. It's even an ergo bend. I'd really love to see more of those out there. If you're ONLY riding your Fargo offroad that just means you're not riding it on the roads on the way there, or in between. And that's just a shame.

On Drop Bars....

Specifically, the Woodchippers-

Here are some posts from Twenty Nine Inches where I go over a comparison of drop bars for off roading, and a couple of posts on "why" and "How" to use drop bars off road.

http://twentynineinches.com/2010/01/03/salsa-cycles-woodchipper-bar-a-comparison/

http://twentynineinches.com/2010/03/04/drop-bars-for-off-road-why/

http://twentynineinches.com/2010/05/03/drop-bars-for-off-road-on-set-up-and-concerns/

Hopefully that helps answer some of the drop bar questions here.

Finally, I have friends that really like the WTB drop bar, but typically the set up is more difficult with them due to their deeper drop. Otherwise they are a fantastic choice as well.

On a trial basis I just swaped out my woodchippers for the titec j-bars. I liked the woodchippers for cruising but didn't like them so much for out of the saddle climbing which I like to do and we have a lot of climbing around here. So far I am liking them better for that aspect at least. I wish they were wider though.

Manzanita said:

GT, what I still have not heard is a comparison between dirt drops and moustache bars. The Surly Open bar could be used very similarly to the Woodchipper, without the taller steerer and spacers. Of course Surly specifically notes that it is not designed for the purpose and not beefy enough to stand up to long term abuse. But the drops of the Woodchipper and the "ends" of a bar like the Open could be set nearly identically (brakes being the obvious exception). They are largely 2 and 3 dimensional versions of each other. Have there never been offroad moustache bar riders?

Click to expand...

Yes, there were off-road mustache bars and they were spec'ed briefly on Bridgestone bikes. They used the 25.4mm mounting diameter which accommodated mtb controls. These are quite rare as most mustache bars will only accept road levers/shifters.

I had the opportunity to briefly ride some mtb control compatible moustache bars, and if these were available again, they might be a great choice for some. Actually, Rawland Cycles makes a similar bar, that goes with it's "Elgokse" stem, but they are heavy chrome steel and quite wide.

Trouble with mustache bars is that with the road levers, your off road hand position is preferably out at the widest part of the bar, far away from the brake levers. You could move the levers out there, but it would be an awkward set up, and it would hamper the movement of the levers, decreasing the effectiveness of the brakes.

Drop bars designed for off roading solve the brake lever issue, and they also work better with modern road shift levers as well.Plus, as you allude to, they offer a "two tiered" grip to help releive the body on long rides, or for different climbing positions.

Handlebar Setup

I love new bikes. I don't like the whole process of setting up riding positions though. I reckon it's got something to do with my personality in that I get something that's pretty good and then wonder if there's something better. I have found that setting up can take forever!

Anyway, after reading GT's links, I decided the best way to approach the problem is to start at the extreme and work back towards what may be considered "normal" positioning for the bars.

The variables (with stock components) are stem height on the steerer tube and bar rotation. A 20 degree angle for the bottom of the drop seemed like a popular number here, so I dropped the stem to it's lowest possible position on the fork tube and set the bar to 20 degrees. Mmmmm I like the height, but felt a bit forward. Riding this set up was great on single track, felt really low and racy, but I was not sure about longer distances, so I rotate back to about 10 degrees. This has the effect of bringing the bottom of the drop higher and the front of the drop backwards, which then felt really weird, like my arms were pointing straight down. Totally the opposite of what I expected.

Next was to raise the stem one spacer (about 10mm) and rotate the bar back to 20 degrees. Again felt too far forward, so rotate back to about 10 degrees again. Eureka!

So now the drops are slightly lower than the seat height and the top of the bar is higher than the seat (by a fair margin). If I compare this to my flat bar setup, the drops are about 20mm lower and the tops probably maybe 60mm above. I rode about 40km last night (fairly standard length ride for me) with this setup and was still fresh, so I reckon this is pretty good.

I have 5 bikes now, an old Cannondale superV, a 2008 TrekEX8 duel sus rig, a Scott Sub 10 commuter, a Redline Monocog and the Fargo of course. Riding the Fargo is a whole new level of comfort and efficiency compared to all the others and I really can't see a reason to own anything else but the Fargo now, except I'm not sure about racing it.

Does anyone else use their Fargo for racing enduro events (3-6 hours)?

Pics of Last Nights Ride

Some pictures of last nights "adjustments" ride. Just a beautiful evening to be out on a bike

Manzanita said:

GT, what I still have not heard is a comparison between dirt drops and moustache bars. Have there never been offroad moustache bar riders?

Click to expand...

I recently put a Nashbar moustache bar (56 cm version) on my monster cross bike. I had picked it up a while back, as it was super wide and cheap (but steel for strengtht!). Due to width and drop, it's like a mix between a moustache bar and dirt drop. So far, I like it, but this is my fun bike and haven't done any super long or challenging rides, yet. I've used a few dirt drops and moustache bars on other bikes, so I like both types.

Ted,
Am jealous. Of course the day of the Rawland ride, we headed the other way for vacation. Doesn't sound like I could keep up with your crowd. Would have been fun.

Am getting in some riding on the Fargo, though (Cook County Road 58 about two miles up from Lake Superior) -

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As to the Woodchipper bars (BTW, we need another company to make them, so we can have Woodchipper Jones bars ) they have become my favorite. Both for off paved roads and on road. Do run them high, though. Both a preference, and an acknowledgement that age and weight make it tough to get down into too agressive of a position.

Two new things

I'm trying out two new things for my Fargo:

1- Carradice Super C saddlebag
I'm trying to lighten up my camping load, with the ultimate goal of using a saddlebag + handlebar bag, with a few random things strapped here and there. The Super C is supposed to be as big as their Camper model, but it doesn't look as roomy as I'd hoped. We'll see on the next trip... Anyway, I like the combination of waxed cotton + plastic buckles, which is much more convenient than the traditional leather straps.

2- Moustache bars
I've used these off an on for years. I'm liking this setup on my Fargo, with the brake levers a little more outboard and the handles canted up a hair. However, I can't use the handlebar bag with these, which is kind of a fatal flaw.



And here's just an odd picture:

my shakedown ride on the new Fargo. I've had a lot of bikes over the past years, but this one takes the cake.