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I'm making a trip out to GJ with a buddy that rides a hardtail, and was thinking about riding The Ribbon and Gunny Loop.
He's a good rider but leans more toward trials than freeride.
Can you ride most of these trails on a hardtail, or would you be walking most of it.
 

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Sure that what the orgin use was.

bikecruz said:
I'm making a trip out to GJ with a buddy that rides a hardtail, and was thinking about riding The Ribbon and Gunny Loop.
He's a good rider but leans more toward trials than freeride.
Can you ride most of these trails on a hardtail, or would you be walking most of it.
It seems That Joel is making this ride out to be a freeride trail. It's not. Please stay on the current route and enjoy it. It a great ride on a hard tail. I ride it from the lower lot climbing & coming down then head over to the gunny great day of riding. The pics being showed on MTBR are short moves can be handle on a hard tail. Then some of the other pics are pushing the limits of what good for the area.
 

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tiggerider said:
It seems That Joel is making this ride out to be a freeride trail.
This is completely inaccurate.

People choose to ride their big bikes over here on Green Mountain, sometimes they even jump over rocks in the trail at speed - this does not make Green Mountain a "freeride trail". It simply means that people ride FR bikes there on occasion. If you see a picture of someone jumping his CX bike over a 6" drop in the trail on Green Mountain - this is most likely because it is more exciting to see a pic of someone on an obstacle than it is to see one of someone just riding along, not because the photog and rider think of the area as a potential "Rampage" site.

I don't know if you've ridden with Joel - but I have, and it is irritating to see people lump him into the "Xtreme Gen X, Palmer Wannabe" group simply because he rides a bike with 6" of travel and has friends who ride double crowns and have the nerve to jump off of stuff. Joel not only has more skill than 90% of the people that I have ridden with (going up and down), but also has a very obvious and long standing love of the sport and shows a great deal of respect for his (your) trails. Everbody does things they shouldn't on the trail at one point or another - you're just lucky enough that some hypocritical troll from Cali didn't dig up evidence of your indiscretions and post them online.

Sorry if this seems like an overreaction - I just think that it's BS that so many are giving Joel sh1t about being a nice guy and sharing some Grand Valley trails with a few out ot towners. Maybe some of you whining about (your perception of) the situation online should actually try riding with the guy before passing judgement - I'll bet you'd be surprised.

BTW Mike - your friend would be fine on a hardtail.
 

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LOL! Oh, we know Joel! I'm not trying to start a war here, but believe it or not tiggerider and Joel have ridden together, drank beers together, and done trailwork together.

"making this out to be a freeride" means that the recent photos of Joel's rides have given the perception that this is a freeride trail.

As far as whether or not what Joel is doing is right or wrong, I'm not going there.
 

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The first time I did the Ribbon, I rode it uphill - on an old C'dale hardtail with about 1" of travel in the played out headshock. It's a great trail - uphill as part of a loop or shuttling with a "freeride" bike - and anyone with trials skills should have no problem whatsoever.

For what it's worth, after that first ride, every subsequent ride I've taken on the Ribbon has been a shuttle - with 7" travel front and rear.

I have also done the Gunny loop on an old beater hardtail - your buddy should not have any difficulty with that trail, either.
 

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s1ngletrack said:
Everbody does things they shouldn't on the trail at one point or another - you're just lucky enough that some hypocritical troll from Cali didn't dig up evidence of your indiscretions and post them online.
Hypocritical? LOL. Please prove up your silly claim.

What continues to amaze and amuse me is this whole "detective/dig up" whining when your buddy posted the picture online and linked to the gallery from MTBR. Why is it such a big deal to you?

BTW, even if that pic of Joel wasn't online, the rest of the pictures provide enough reasons for concern.

Blame the messenger, not the person jumping into crypto and riding in a National Monument again, eh?

In case you can't understand Sarah's post, and before you step in it any further with more assumptions, Kevin knows Joel and Joel knows Kevin and Kevin's comment, even if some folks lump him into the "old guard" category, rings completely true.

The pictures posted of people riding off-trail on the Ribbon and surrounding areas are not a good thing.

Even if the pictures are described as being "near-trail."

p.s. The ole "you're a troll because you upset me" bit is funny, even if completely inaccurate.
 

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Pete said:
Hypocritical? LOL. Please prove up your silly claim.

p.s. The ole "you're a troll because you upset me" bit is funny, even if completely inaccurate.
You know Pete - I could prove that you are a hypocrite. But I'm not going to - the benefit of my saving face here would far, far outweigh the cost. Go ahead and call me a liar if you think it will make you look or feel better - just don't call me a hypocrite. ;)

As to the troll bit - it's kind of hard to view your behavior as anything but trolling, in light of the above mentioned circumstances.
 

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screampint said:
LOL! Oh, we know Joel! I'm not trying to start a war here, but believe it or not tiggerider and Joel have ridden together, drank beers together, and done trailwork together.

"making this out to be a freeride" means that the recent photos of Joel's rides have given the perception that this is a freeride trail.
It just strikes me as odd how Joel is painted, in recent posts, as this grip twisting poster boy - representing all things evil. It's almost like everyone over there is so caught up in the "more trail friendly than thou" mindset that they are afraid to step out of line and recognize that maybe - just maybe, guys on freeride bikes will not be the downfall of mountain biking as we know it. Seriously, it's like it's popular lately to bash Joel and us turds from the Front Range for messing everything up - simply by posting a few pictures of a great ride.

Kevin and Joel could be roomates for all I know, I tried to make it clear that I was not pretending to know any background on that situation in my first post. It just seems to me that you guys (no, not you in particular) should be able to come up with a better scapegoat than Joel.
 

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Oh dear. I believe you are only getting a little slice of life on the Western Slope. We don't hate Joel. I know him well enough that if I were concerned about something he is or isn't doing I would contact him myself.

Right now there is some concern about the Ribbon, and it's not "all Joel's fault."
 

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bikecruz said:
I'm making a trip out to GJ with a buddy that rides a hardtail, and was thinking about riding The Ribbon and Gunny Loop.
He's a good rider but leans more toward trials than freeride.
Can you ride most of these trails on a hardtail, or would you be walking most of it.
Given the first Time I rode this trail, I had to use a hardtail (see pete's ribbon video)...Gosh, I really hope there aren't trails that are not hardtailable! Kristian rode some insane stuff with us in Moab last year on a hardtail that makes ribbon and gunny seem like smooth pavement.

Funny that one of the side effects of advent of full suspension is a perception that trails might not be rideable on any other bike.
 

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lidarman said:
Given the first Time I rode this trail, I had to use a hardtail (see pete's ribbon video)...Gosh, I really hope there aren't trails that are not hardtailable! Kristian rode some insane stuff with us in Moab last year on a hardtail that makes ribbon and gunny seem like smooth pavement.

Funny that one of the side effects of advent of full suspension is a perception that trails might not be rideable on any other bike.
yeah i thought it was funny cause i used to ride when there were only hardtails...and it seemed back then the trails were more technical due to lack of traffic and the constant dumbing down of the trails...
 

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FU guys

wow is this what this has turned into.Have a beer,Relax!

To un hijack this thread and answer this question.
A hardtail will be fine,arguably better.There is a lot of climbing,some of the tech sections may make you wish for FS but many people ride hardtails out there SS even.
 

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you can do it!

I have ridden the ribbon to the gunny alot its a great ride!
I have ridden both of these trails on a hardtail and find them to be very doable.
you can hit the mild drops and not skirt around them or skirt around them since noone is placing rocks on the cheater lines around the big stuff!
of course six inches front and rear along with choking on Joel's dust has changed the trail for me for the better and i havent taken the hardtail down that route in awhile!

keep up the good work joel as long as people are using your name we're for sure to get you as our "freestyle, downhill, crosscountry" trail spokesperson for the blm.

oh yeah and i do live with joel. and hear ya loud and clear s1ngletrack!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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I like to ride it on a SS hardtail. With a 7" fork.

tiggerider said:
It seems That Joel is making this ride out to be a freeride trail. It's not.
Could someone point out where I have ever called the Ribbon a downhill or freeride trail?

Could someone point out where I have posted pics of the trail being used in this way?

It is regrettable that some people now perceive it to be a "freeride trail". It is an unintended consequence of my failing to call 'cameras tight'.

pete said:
...jumping into crypto and riding in a National Monument ...posted the picture online and linked to the gallery from MTBR. Why is it such a big deal to you?[/QUOTE]
It's a big deal to me beacuse I'm not proud of it. It's not my MO. I know you think I should have "rolled up to that line off the Ribbon, taken one look, and said, "nope, this isn't a cool thing to do guys." But that's not the way things happen in real life. Sarah will remember when she, Skip an me thought 18rd would be dry but just ended up thrashing Prime Cut. Well, same thing. A guy offered to show me a line, we started on rock but ended up thrashing some vegatation. I don't like that any more than I like riding in the mud, and I got two flat tires as punishment.

Pete, like I says, I'm sure you've got the trail's best interest in mind. Good. If you need to paint me in a negative light I would ask that you find another example; ie not one that I have already repeatedly admitted was a bad call.

screampint said:
It has been brought to my attention that you should be reminded that the Ribbon is a "sensitive issue" trail.
I know the score on the Ribbon. I spent part of Friday afternoon at the BLM office looking at maps and chatting about just that. I also realize many of you were around when mountain biking in the valley was fragile, and relations with the Bureau were cold to say the least. Quite frankly, I think there's a lot of paranoia left over from those times. A few extra-curricular obstacles are not going to close the Ribbon, or any other trail.

I'm sure some of you are now asking "where to draw the line". Well, I don't have all the answers, I can only say that I use my best judgement in deciding what to ride. There are many, many moves that I boycott because they are not worth the environmental impact.

Believe me, there are plenty who do not share my scruples. It seems quite ironic to lecture me simply because I'm a visible member of the community here.

doub1etrack said:
I don't know if you've ridden with Joel... This is completely inaccurate.
Not only is Kevin [tiggerider]the toe-clip master, but he points out, accurately, "Then some of the other pics are pushing the limits of what's good for the area." He's not calling me an azzhole, and I don't think (most) anyone else is either. Likewise, I apologize if I po'd anyone in the other thread. I guess I just don't like being called a downhiller.
 

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s1ngletrack said:
You know Pete - I could prove that you are a hypocrite. But I'm not going to - the benefit of my saving face here would far, far outweigh the cost.
You either misunderstood our mutual friend(s) [COUGH Kristian/JimCOUGH] or you're too blame for the confusion.

I don't, and haven't advocated "off-trail" lines and trail threading on trails like the Ribbon.

I have ridden "secret" trails in a number of places. It's all about picking the right time and the right place.

The riding in question apparently didn't take this simple concept in to consideration.

s1ngletrack said:
As to the troll bit - it's kind of hard to view your behavior as anything but trolling, in light of the above mentioned circumstances.

Again with the "you upset me so you're a troll bit." That's too bad.

My comments, going all of the way back to my first one on the subject, are based on the pictures of people riding "off-trail" lines on the Ribbon.

It's not just about the single picture of Joel frolicking in the crypto, it's about the group of pictures, and the riding, as a whole.
 

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Pete said:
...I don't, and haven't advocated "off-trail" lines and trail threading on trails like the Ribbon...

...I have ridden "secret" trails in a number of places. It's all about picking the right time and the right place...
So Pete, just so we're clear, can you sum up your view on riding off trail, riding illegal trails, and riding in areas not open to MTB's? It seems to me your saying it's all good as long as you don't get caught, i.e., "It's all about picking the right time and the right place..."
 

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DWF said:
So Pete, just so we're clear, can you sum up your view on riding off trail, riding illegal trails, and riding in areas not open to MTB's?

No.

I wouldn't want to upset fragile folks by being "sanctimonious"...

If you can't distinguish between the off-trail riding in the referenced pics and riding other trails, including those that are closed to bikes (yet not sensitive), then it's pointless to attempt to educate you.

Cheers.
 

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Pete said:

No.

I wouldn't want to upset fragile folks by being "sanctimonious"...

If you can't distinguish between the off-trail riding in the referenced pics and riding other trails, including those that are closed to bikes (yet not sensitive), then it's pointless to attempt to educate you.

Cheers.
Peter, I don't expect you to educate me on distinguishing the difference between off-trail riding in the "referenced pics" and those that are closed to bikes. I was hoping you'd educate me with one of your delightful polemics on the differences *you* distinguish and I was hoping you'd do it in such a fashion that "screaming hypocrite" isn't the first thought that comes to mind. I think I already understand your whole "if I do it, it's cool, if someone else does it it's bad and must be punished repeatedly" angle, so no need to rehash that.
 

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Wow, is this the Ellsworth board from 6 months ago???

Just wondering because if this isn't the EW board from a few months ago, it sure feels like it to me. Same exact name, same exact game.

I feel pretty lucky to live in a part of the world where most folks ride XC and FR and, as a result, give each riding discipline the respect it deserves. I loathe the terms 'lycra clad" or "shuttle monkeys" as I've seen thown out on this board quite a bit.

Churs,
EB

P.S. Rode the Bookcliffes area a lil' over a week ago on my big bike (yes, I can climb on it too!). Lovely trails you have......
 
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