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Praise Bob
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am posting this just to elicit some genuine responses, comments and thoughts on whether time to upgrade or whether my Moment is past it's prime and a new bike is in order.

For starters I have a Moment that I got on closeout in 2006 so I am suspecting that I got slipped a Rev1 rather than the Rev 1.5 that was out at that time. In the past two years I have gotten to ride a few different types of 6" travel bikes and they all feel like they have way more suspension travel (especially the Nomad). I just had my DHX coil Pushed and I love what they did for the feel of the shock, but nonetheless my wife's 5" moto-lite still feels like it has nearly identical travel. With the heavy coil shock, a Fox 36 upfront and an XT/X9 build kit I am pulling around 36lbs just to ride a bike that seems to have 5" travel.

On top of that I recently had to put new rubber on the bike and went with Nevegal UST tires to shed some rotational weight. This has seemed to add insult to injury because it feels like I am dragging a boat anchor. Maybe I am insane and am just feeling the 5lbs of "Holiday weight" I have yet to lose.

I guess what I am getting at is that I would like opinions on whether it is worth it to sink a ton of cash into getting an air shock, a new Fox air fork and different tires on the bike to try and breath some more life into it. As a counter example, I could spend slightly more and get an Ibis Mojo which would weigh almost 10lbs lighter and be able to ride the same stuff I do now.

THoughts? Comments?
 

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it all depends on if you need 6" of travel. right now there are a lot of quality 5 to 5.5" travel bikes out there that feel like they have as much travel as older 6" bikes. geometry plays a big part too. i'm riding a knolly endorphin and it feels better than my moment did and it has 5.5" of travel. it's no light weight, it's low 30pds. i'm really interested in the banshee spitfire. 5" of travel and low and slack. the mojo is a nice bike, you'll hear people from both sides say they love it or hate it and that's it's stiff and flexy. the horst link seems to be getting out played by the multi link bikes out there. dw link, vpp2 and maestro seem to be gaining ground on it. an air shock will be a compromise in ride quality no matter what you get. it will be lighter but not as smooth. demo a few bikes. things have changed in the last few years. there are a ton of nice bikes out there right now and some good deals as well. are you set on 6" of travel??
 

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Qbert is right, developments in geometry, suspension design and shock technology has enabled many 5.5 inch bikes to handle as well as 6 inch bikes of yesteryear. An example is the Lappierre Zesty, 140mm (5.5inch) of travel on a slack and relatively low geometry frame. My friend takes one on alps trips and can hold his own till the going gets really rough. However that said 10mm might not sound much but it is still a lot in bike terms

Many 150mm bikes have gone on a serious diet too and weights well under 30lb are achievable with sensible speccing of parts.

At the same time though bikes like the moment have gone on to be more capable machines, the basic suspension layout may be relatively unchanged but geometry and shock improvements mean the bike is no longer just a long travel trail bike but more of a mini DH bike that can still be pedalled (sitting down!) to the top.

At 34lb my moment is not the bike I choose for xc trail rides with a lot of climbing. I do use it a trail centres where the climbs tend to be long gradual seated affairs (single or double track) rather than stand up and hack type efforts. Its worth the slog to the top for the excellent handling on the way down.

If I wanted something lighter and more XC orientated but with 150mm of travel I would go for a Trek remedy I think, lighter and slightly steeper geometry and only a few millimeters less travel. However it is worth noting that the difference between 150 and 160mm bikes intended purpose is a big jump.

As qbert says you need to look at your riding, do you really need that much travel?
If you are an aggressive trail rider riding hardcore xc trails or trail centres then 140mm is more than enough but if you are taking your bike to the big mountains and ski resorts then 150 or even 160mm is ideal, but some 140mm bikes will still cut it.
 

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Owner, Spoke Apparel
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My 2006 Moment comes in at 32 lbs. I can take it anywhere and use it for lots of XC. It is plush as anything and I prefer the feel of my Moment over that of a new Nomad.

That said, my Moment uses high-end, light parts. The build came in at over 6k. How your bike is built up and what components you use make all the difference in the world. The DHX Air 5 provides a bottomless feel. People have said the mid-stoke isn't there on this shock, but I cant feel anything like that. As for big hits, I have hit 7 foot gaps to flat on this bike and felt nothing near a bottom out.

I am not necessarily an "Ellsworth only" advocate. There are a lot of great bikes out there. But it is hard to deny the level of responsiveness you get out of an Ellsworth - especially the Moment. Between the 2010 and the 2006, not THAT much has changed; the stays are offset, the top tube offers more stand-over clearance and it may be slightly stiffer. But what you and I both have (the 2006) is 97% what the 2010 is.

I am not a fan of the Ibis as a comparative bike to an Ellsworth. I think the closest would be a Nomad. That said, I do not think you would want to "downgrade."

It sounds to me like you have two choices - get some better components on your Moment, or upgrade to a new bike all together where you will still have to get good components to really get the performance out the frame. It all comes down to budget. Your cheapest bet is upgrading what you have as it isn't anywhere near outdated.

If you want to see my build...check here http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=586442
 

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My '06 V1 Moment weighs in at 30 pounds, and I'm running a heavy Lyrik coil up front. Rp23 and Havoc wheelset, no carbon, and mostly XT. At one point I had it around 28 pounds with a Talas and Mountain King 2.4 Supersonic tires.
Great bike, up or down.

My Intense Vpp was also great riding bike, but flexy in the back and I was tightening up the lower pivots every post ride. That bike was around the same weight.

Try it lighter and faster. If it doesn't work, jump ship.:)
 

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Praise Bob
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for all the great advice! You all really hit it spot on - my deliberation is whether to upgrade with some newer/lighter parts or abandon the bike for a newer shorter travel bike.

@qbert- Do I "need" 6" of travel...hmmm...does my car "need" 350HP? :)

All joking aside, no I dont really need that much travel but I sure have enjoyed it. I took my Moment out to Northstar back in October and rode the lift assisted stuff for two days and then rode around Tahoe for the other two days. It was amazing to do all of that on the same bike. I doubt a 5" bike could have ridden the lift assisted stuff with as much fun factor.

What got me thinking is that the xc stuff was killing me on the climbs when I was out there. I did it...but it was painful. Plus I only get to bike parks a handful times in a year (at best). I guess I am looking to put the bike on a diet without sacrificing too much big hit fun.

@bpnic - I am *very* interested in hearing how the RP23 works out on your bike. I have hated how the older air shocks/forks felt so that is really my debate. If I could switch over to air without sacrificing too much ride quality I would save upwards of 3lbs off the bike. That might be exactly what I need.

Does anyone else have experience with going from coil to air with some of the new Fox stuff? Fox advertising has always said that their air forks "feel just like a coil" but that is a line of BS. I have an '06 Fox 36 TALAS that is a piece of junk.
 

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Owner, Spoke Apparel
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When was the last time you had the Talas fork serviced by Fox? They recommend once every 40-60 hours I think. I just sent mine out (an "06) and it came back with the 2010 internals. It's sweet as can be. I didn't realize what I was missing as it was badly in need of a rebuild. All this for around $125.00 and the Fork is better than it was brand new.
 

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Spartacus Rex said:
Thanks for all the great advice! You all really hit it spot on - my deliberation is whether to upgrade with some newer/lighter parts or abandon the bike for a newer shorter travel bike.

@qbert- Do I "need" 6" of travel...hmmm...does my car "need" 350HP? :)

All joking aside, no I dont really need that much travel but I sure have enjoyed it. I took my Moment out to Northstar back in October and rode the lift assisted stuff for two days and then rode around Tahoe for the other two days. It was amazing to do all of that on the same bike. I doubt a 5" bike could have ridden the lift assisted stuff with as much fun factor.

What got me thinking is that the xc stuff was killing me on the climbs when I was out there. I did it...but it was painful. Plus I only get to bike parks a handful times in a year (at best). I guess I am looking to put the bike on a diet without sacrificing too much big hit fun.

@bpnic - I am *very* interested in hearing how the RP23 works out on your bike. I have hated how the older air shocks/forks felt so that is really my debate. If I could switch over to air without sacrificing too much ride quality I would save upwards of 3lbs off the bike. That might be exactly what I need.

Does anyone else have experience with going from coil to air with some of the new Fox stuff? Fox advertising has always said that their air forks "feel just like a coil" but that is a line of BS. I have an '06 Fox 36 TALAS that is a piece of junk.
i guess the 6" need is tough to quantify, more like wil you miss that extra 1/2 -1". for me, most bikes i am interested have made changes in geometry vs. travel. like the spitfire or the lapierre zesty. 5 or 5.5" travel bikes that have 66-68 degree head tube angles and lower bottom brackets. if you check out the spitfire thread you'll see the designer pushed it beyond trail riding during testing because he wanted it to be able to bridge that gap in some instances. is it good for shuttle riding only? no, but it will take some big hits and survive. most of the mini link bikes out there aren't relying on propedal to support the suspension while putting down the power so they sit up in their travel a little better. again, for me i like that 5-6" bikes are looking at geo for making changes. a 69 or 69 degree 6" bike is a dime a dozen these days. it's nice that some manufacturers are pushing the boundaries of what is acceptable out there. here's the link to the spitfire designers thoughts. check it out if you're interested. i really like that they put a tapered headtube on it so you could run a 6" fork with a zerostack lower cup without messing up the geometry. there's a few things in there where they made some changes based on customer input, that's cool to see.

http://bansheebikes.blogspot.com/search/label/Spitfire
 

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Spartacus Rex said:
@bpnic - I am *very* interested in hearing how the RP23 works out on your bike. I have hated how the older air shocks/forks felt so that is really my debate. If I could switch over to air without sacrificing too much ride quality I would save upwards of 3lbs off the bike. That might be exactly what I need.

Does anyone else have experience with going from coil to air with some of the new Fox stuff? Fox advertising has always said that their air forks "feel just like a coil" but that is a line of BS. I have an '06 Fox 36 TALAS that is a piece of junk.
I ride one bike, tech XC to shuttle runs. A DHX-A felt too plush for XC, great for dropos/jumps. A push'd (factory plush) rp23 felt perfect. Always in the sweet spot.
I never use the propedal, unless riding the road for a bit to the trailhead. I run it a little soft (30+ish% sag), and use all the travel when I can.
I'll snap some pictures after work.
Here's one with a Pike and dhx-a....


 

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I started out with a heavier build on my 05 Moment.
(Coil fork and shock)

A change to the Fox 140 RLC (Pushed) and a Foc RP23 (Pushed) dropped the weight to 29 lb.

Suggest: Get light wheels/tires and Fox Air suspension and be happy!
 

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Praise Bob
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
2010 internals, No kidding? That's good to know. I've kept up with seals/fork leg oil but it has been a while since I had the Talas cart serviced. Even when the fork was new I never really liked the feel of it. If I run 25-30% sag the fork wallows through corners and bottoms harshly. I have to run 50lbs of air in it to get 20% sag and that is the best compromise (I'm 210lbs btw). If I put any more air in it then I might as well be running a rigid fork. Even after my last rebuild it felt exactly the same so I am just saving up for a new fork. Hopefully the 2010 36 Float wont let me down.
 

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ZEN RIDER!
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SR i'm in the same boat. I have an 05 moment & it does everything i want it to but i'm running all coil front & rear & i'm at around 37 lbs. I love the way the moment climbs like a billy goat & it can bomb downhills. That being said there are aspects to the geometry that over the course of 5 yrs or so I've picked up on that i'm sure the newer version & new bikes have perfected.
My dad just purchased a Mach 4 & I noticed how much travel the bike felt like it had compared to the Moment. I was really impressed by the stiffness & depth of the travel for an 4" xc bike.
My next bike is going to be between the Pivot Mach 5 & Firebird & Ibis Mojo & Mojo HD & of course the Moment. The HD is intriguing because you can easily build a 27 lb all mt. machine. My only concern is NE riding & having a carbon frame with all the granite rocks we have in CT.
 

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Spartacus Rex said:
2010 internals, No kidding? That's good to know. I've kept up with seals/fork leg oil but it has been a while since I had the Talas cart serviced. Even when the fork was new I never really liked the feel of it. If I run 25-30% sag the fork wallows through corners and bottoms harshly. I have to run 50lbs of air in it to get 20% sag and that is the best compromise (I'm 210lbs btw). If I put any more air in it then I might as well be running a rigid fork. Even after my last rebuild it felt exactly the same so I am just saving up for a new fork. Hopefully the 2010 36 Float wont let me down.
I rode a demo bike with an '09 140 TALAS, and my new Epi has the '10 140 TALAS. Feels like a completely different fork to me. Rode it for the first time this past Thursday, night ride and didn't hit anything too hard. Next day noticed I had used all but about 1/8" of travel, never felt it bottom, felt very good. Added 5psi, went out Saturday, same thing, but hit some stuff a little harder. Sunday during a race, same thing. Ran a team, and every lap I added 5psi, progressively hitting things harder and harder. Never bottomed, or even felt like it was that deep into the travel. I was highly impressed with it, it also has alot more rebound control as compared to the '09 fork.
 

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Live to Ride-Ride to Live
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A week ago I received my new Moment, complete with a RP23, and 150mm Talas RLC 32. I am still waiting on an Ellsworth AM wheel set before I start to build it up. I hope to keep the final build below #30 using mainly XT components, and Avid Elixir brakes. I am really stoked to start putting miles on this bike. It should be fun!
 

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Time is not a road.
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These conversations always start and end the same: "What about "x" bike?", then "upgrade the suspension". So, is this about the frame and it's characteristics or the suspension and it's activity?

I changed to an RP23 years ago and haven't looked back and I still run a nice, buttery 07 66 up front. Tires seem to make the most dramatic change to the bike, but I've also noticed some comfort upgrade by adding wider carbon bars and a setback post. Furthermore, I rode a friend's Medium and liked my Small better by comparison, so if you might be in between sizes with this bike, that, too can have an effect on how it rides - the longer bike, Med, felt like a climber, while the shorter Sm seems like a better descender, to me, while remaining light at the bars, which I dig for climbing. It's easy to step up objects.

I get pretty close to using 6 full inches of travel but not always and the RP23 does a good job of controlling that, no wallow or kickback or any other habits that I notice or dislike.

Nevegals are like strapping slugs to your wheels. We should all file a class action suit and demand a recall!
 

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Praise Bob
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Chad - I really like the bike, that's my dilemma. It has taken some tweaking with a setback post and wider carbon bars and a medium length stem (90mm), but I really love the geo and the ride quality. Between the 2.35" nevegals, a DHX coil and a FOX 36 I am pushing a little over 36 lbs and the bike just doesnt come up to speed well and long climbs are a nightmare.

I've test ridden some newer bikes recently (including a Mojo) and they feel just as plush as my Moment while weighing in at 27lbs or so. The debate becomes: put my bike on an expensive diet or shell out the dough for a new bike. It is a tough call and I haven't made up my mind. My Moment has been through a lot and there is some sentimental factor. The Mojo was one sweet ride though.

The last thing I want is to spend all of the $$$ on air shock/fork only to find out that it compromises the ride quality despite saving a few lbs. From what others are saying it sounds like a new RP23 and Float 36 could breathe some new life into my bike without compromising big hit fun.
 

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I've done the latter and you usually end up with a bike that is worth considerable less on the secondary market than you put into it. a used MOJO with a nice xtr/xt spec just went on the bay for a little over $2000, it's hard to beat.
 
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