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Christ you people are so dramatic. I never said people with their dogs off leash are the Boogeyman, I said they were an annoyance. I'm not sure what you want me to say when the vast majority of people I see on the trails with their dogs unleashed are of a certain age bracket.

Would it make your guys feelings feel better if I pointed out something annoying that my generation does?
Perhaps your worldview is too narrow. Where I live, all ages and genders appear to be walking their dogs, and it's probably 50/50 whether or not the dog is on leash.

Why did you choose to embed yourself among a generation of people that frustrate you enough to prattle on about them in thread after thread?
 

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Perhaps your worldview is too narrow. Where I live, all ages and genders appear to be walking their dogs, and it's probably 50/50 whether or not the dog is on leash.

Why did you choose to embed yourself among a generation of people that frustrate you enough to prattle on about them in thread after thread?
It's an observation, not a world view. When did I say that all boomers frustrate me? I was making an analogy to another subset of trail users that do slightly annoying things.

As far as my "prattling on", maybe you should go read my posts a little closer. I rarely mention boomers and if I do, it's usually just poking fun at older members here who I know can dish it out just as much as they take it.
 

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Let's see...where were we 10 years ago?

We can round off to 2012. So what kind of bike tech did we have in 2012:

1x with clutch just hit the market.

800mm bars were popular with the cool kids and the masses were steadily working their way past 750mm

people were skeptical about carbon but it was arguably tougher than today because it was a little heavier (other than rims which we have now learned need to be as heavy as metal to be durable) We learned those early carbon frames were so tough we could shave a few grams.

Tapered forks dominated with some lingering straight options. 1.5 head tubes were giving way to tapered. Straight head tubes were dead.

twin tube damper shocks were only offered by Cane Creek because the patent they purchased from Ohlins in 06 hadn't expired yet. To my knowledge Fox jumped in on twin tube as soon as they could get their hands on that sweet 06 technology that of course predates 06 in the motor world

Brakes were basically the same as today with plenty of very powerful 4 piston options in dot or mineral. Organic, metal, or a mix for pads.

Tires were basically the same in regards to construction with hard, med and soft compounds in singly ply or DH with a few mid weight casings but we have WAY better mid weight options today. Schwalbe just put out super gravity which eventually forced maxis to offer double down.

Long travel droppers existed

Basically every popular suspension design today existed though some were under patent. I think 4bar (horst) become open in 2012? This includes high pivot idlers which are all the rage now. Corsair comes to mind. Guess they went under around 2012?

Flat pedals were thin and trending larger in platform size. Clips still used the same mechanisms with platform options. Shoes were basically the same other than now we have a million crappy flat pedal shoe options to confuse us. In 2012 there was 5.10, and scary options that were great if you wanted to learn no footers.

Axle standards were 142x12. 150, and 100x15 with a few 110x20 options. BB's were threaded with longer lasting 24mm bearings.

Wheel size was a mix of 29 and 26 with the latter dominating bikes with more than 140 travel. Rims were narrower than today with 25mm being pretty new but go back another 10 years and we have 30mm they just never caught on. Same goes for 2.6 to 3.0 tires we just didn't call it plus.

Geo was leaning towards slacker than 67 for aggressive bikes but anything slacker than 66 was considered too slack. Short reach and wheelbase was still where most thought bikes should be. Cool kids used angle sets and offset bushings to go DH slack on their trail bikes.

When you look only at technology almost nothing has changed other than E shifting/ E droppers. Geo has changed radically. I remember when Roskopp, former owner of santa cruz, said the "nomad 2 is rated for a 180 but we feel it becomes too slack so we recommend 160" (65.5ish with a 180) Of course wheelbase, reach, ST angle.... completely changed how bikes handled. Axle and BB standards are all over the place. 27 replaced 26 save for SS, DJ and some FR. 29 has come to dominate pretty much everything that doesn't involve tricks or cornering. For sure the landscape has changed dramatically over the past decade, but when we look just at technology, bikes have been pretty stagnate actually. I'm not going to include E bikes because they aren't mountain bikes.
 

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We can round off to 2012. So what kind of bike tech did we have in 2012:

1x with clutch just hit the market.

800mm bars were popular with the cool kids and the masses were steadily working their way past 750mm

people were skeptical about carbon but it was arguably tougher than today because it was a little heavier (other than rims which we have no learned need to be as heavy as metal to be durable) We learned those early carbon frames were so tough we could shave a few grams.

Tapered forks dominated with some lingering straight options. 1.5 head tubes were giving way to tapered. Straight head tubes were dead.

twin tube damper shocks were only offered by Cane Creek because the patent they purchased from Ohlins in 06 hadn't expired yet. To my knowledge Fox jumped in on twin tube as soon as they could get their hands on that sweet 06 technology that of course predates 06 in the motor world

Brakes were basically the same as today with plenty of very powerful 4 piston options in dot or mineral. Organic, metal, or a mix for pads.

Tires were basically the same in regards to construction with hard, med and soft compounds in singly ply or DH with a few mid weight casings but we have WAY better mid weight options today. Schwalbe just put out super gravity which eventually forced maxis to offer double down.

Long travel droppers existed

Basically every popular suspension design today existed though some were under patent. I think 4bar (horst) become open in 2012?

Flat pedals were thin and trending larger in platform size. Clips still used the same mechanisms with platform options. Shoes were basically the same other than now we have a million crappy flat pedal shoe options to confuse us. In 2012 there was 5.10, and scary options that were great if you wanted to learn no footers.

Axle standards were 142x12. 150, and 100x15 with a few 110x20 options. BB's were threaded with longer lasting 24mm bearings.

Wheel size was a mix of 29 and 26 with the latter dominating bikes with more than 140 travel. Rims were narrower than today with 25mm being pretty new but go back another 10 years and we have 30mm they just never caught on. Same goes for 2.6 to 3.0 tires we just didn't call it plus.

Geo was leaning towards slacker than 67 for aggressive bikes but anything slacker than 66 was considered too slack. Short reach and wheelbase was still where most thought bikes should be. Cool kids used angle sets and offset bushings to go DH slack on their trail bikes.

When you look only at technology almost nothing has changed other than E shifting/ E droppers. Geo has changed radically. I remember when Roskopp, former owner of santa cruz, said the "nomad 2 is rated for a 180 but we feel it becomes too slack so we recommend 160" (65.5ish with a 180) Of course wheelbase, reach, ST angle.... completely changed how bikes handled. Axle and BB standards are all over the place. 27 replaced 26 save for SS, DJ and some FR. 29 has come to dominate pretty much everything that doesn't involve tricks or cornering. For sure the landscape has changed dramatically over the past decade, but when we look just at technology, bikes have been pretty stagnate actually. I'm not going to include E bikes because they aren't mountain bikes.
^^
Just proves “e-“ ing a bike is the biggest leap in mtb technology in a long time.
 

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Cycologist
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Christ you people are so dramatic. I never said people with their dogs off leash are the Boogeyman, I said they were an annoyance. I'm not sure what you want me to say when the vast majority of people I see on the trails with their dogs unleashed are of a certain age bracket.

Would it make your guys feelings feel better if I pointed out something annoying that my generation does?
You mean like riding around with cheese stuck to their bumper like they're something special?
 

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I think it would be interesting to compare forks in particular. I still have some old coil forks circa 2005/6 on bikes that I'm still amazed how well they ride even now. The biggest difference is probably the weight. I think the Travis on one of them is 2.92kg for a single crown fork and 150mm of travel
 

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I think it would be interesting to compare forks in particular. I still have some old coil forks circa 2005/6 on bikes that I'm still amazed how well they ride even now. The biggest difference is probably the weight. I think the Travis on one of them is 2.92kg for a single crown fork and 150mm of travel
Like you said, the main difference is weight. Funny thing is materials didn't change, they just shaved material from the chassis, and ditched open bath for sealed cartridges to cut fluid weight. Shim stacks, twin tube.... All stuff that's been with us a long time. Lowers have been made from magnesium, with aluminum uppers starting around 06 I think? Now we're seeing a resurgence of heavier chassis's just with 38mm stanchions bringing us back to pre 2015 when chassis's were a little heavier. Nothing new really. I had the totem and 66 so 38mm is just old school to all the old dogs out there. What's old is new! We even dug up 110mm spacing from the year 2001 just with 15mm now haha.
 

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Like you said, the main difference is weight. Funny thing is materials didn't change, they just shaved material from the chassis, and ditched open bath for sealed cartridges to cut fluid weight. Shim stacks, twin tube.... All stuff that's been with us a long time. Lowers have been made from magnesium, with aluminum uppers starting around 06 I think? Now we're seeing a resurgence of heavier chassis's just with 38mm stanchions bringing us back to pre 2015 when chassis's were a little heavier. Nothing new really. I had the totem and 66 so 38mm is just old school to all the old dogs out there. What's old is new! We even dug up 110mm spacing from the year 2001 just with 15mm now haha.
Yeah I suspect going to air, and shorter tapered steerers probably shaved most of the weight. Most of my old forks are 20mm too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #134 ·
I read the first dozen or so posts in this thread.
That was enough to see where this thread was going.
After doing so, I suggest the thread title be changed to: “The future of the ebike.”
You see, mountain bikes don’t have motors.
To clarify for those not following along: mountain biking and ebiking are two disparate sports.
Anyone who doesn’t grasp the fundamental difference between the mountain bike and the ebike might easily confuse yet another two-wheeled contraption into the mix: the dirt bike.
So let’s either bring dirt bikes into this conversation or more appropriately, do one of the following:
  1. Rename the thread as suggested above
  2. Keep the discussion to the mountain bike as the thread title suggests. That is to say, the mountain bicycle. That’s the two-wheeled thing that lacks any motor whatsoever.
Thank you.
=sParty
You're entitled to an opinion but it's not some conclusive authoritative fact. The very discussion is around a prediction that 10 years out, a lot of new, good quality mountain bikes will have some form of electric drive. If you want to contribute cool, otherwise you don't need to hijack a thread. Better would be why you think they are separate and why would the prediction fail.
 

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You're entitled to an opinion but it's not some conclusive authoritative fact. The very discussion is around a prediction that 10 years out, a lot of new, good quality mountain bikes will have some form of electric drive. If you want to contribute cool, otherwise you don't need to hijack a thread. Better would be why you think they are separate and why would the prediction fail.
Similar to the doom and gloom reports of climate change...
 

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You're entitled to an opinion but it's not some conclusive authoritative fact. The very discussion is around a prediction that 10 years out, a lot of new, good quality mountain bikes will have some form of electric drive. If you want to contribute cool, otherwise you don't need to hijack a thread. Better would be why you think they are separate and why would the prediction fail.
Your prediction isn't relevant to mountain biking because E bikes aren't mountain bikes. E bikes are a hybrid between a full electric motorbike, and a mountain bike. Just as you can't call a hybrid plug in car an EV or ICE, you can't call an E bike a mountain bike or E moto. This is your thread which is supposed to be about what mountain bikes will look like in 10 years. Keep it to mountain bikes which means no hybrid motor systems. This isn't complicated. Mountain bikes don't have motors. They never have, they never will.
 

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Discussion Starter · #137 ·
Your prediction isn't relevant to mountain biking because E bikes aren't mountain bikes. E bikes are a hybrid between a full electric motorbike, and a mountain bike. Just as you can't call a hybrid plug in car an EV or ICE, you can't call an E bike a mountain bike or E moto. This is your thread which is supposed to be about what mountain bikes will look like in 10 years. Keep it to mountain bikes which means no hybrid motor systems. This isn't complicated. Mountain bikes don't have motors. They never have, they never will.
This is your own definition, nobody else’s. You don’t define what a mountain bike is. The industry does define eBikes as mountain bikes. In the attached image, for instance, Specialized lists an electric mountain bike as the very first bike under the section “Mountain Bikes”.

Product Managers from some of the biggest bike makers state that they think all mountain bikes will have some form of electric drive in the future.

The thing that makes eBikes so unique is the way they work. It’s still a bicycle in every respect, just that there is assistance to pedalling. But you must pedal, and with an eBike, you can pedal with no assist.

Bicycle Wheel Tire Bicycles--Equipment and supplies Crankset
 

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This is your own definition, nobody else’s. You don’t define what a mountain bike is. The industry does define eBikes as mountain bikes. In the attached image, for instance, Specialized lists an electric mountain bike as the very first bike under the section “Mountain Bikes”.

Product Managers from some of the biggest bike makers state that they think all mountain bikes will have some form of electric drive in the future.

The thing that makes eBikes so unique is the way they work. It’s still a bicycle in every respect, just that there is assistance to pedalling. But you must pedal, and with an eBike, you can pedal with no assist.
Like I said in my first post, if this comes to pass, then I'm going to be just another cranky old hiker. And I'll be trying to get all of the motorized abominations out of the woods.
 

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Like I said in my first post, if this comes to pass, then I'm going to be just another cranky old hiker. And I'll be trying to get all of the motorized abominations out of the woods.
I'll meet up with you to ride the last of the actual MTB designated trail systems. Motos can do their own thing...
 

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OP, the bike industry muddies the waters because they want to sell E bikes. I don't need the auto industry to tell me a Prius is a hybrid between an EV and an ICE just as I don't need the bike industry to tell me an E bike is a hybrid between a motorbike and mountain bike. You just keep pedaling that Prius bike of yours thinking it's a mountain bike all you want. Anyone with a brain can see what's going on. Many choose to ignore the obvious because mountain biking is too hard for them and they can't accept that they quit mountain biking to pedal a Prius.
 
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