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Discussion Starter · #101 ·
I think we all need to stop thinking about ebikes in terms of bicycles, and start thinking about ebikes as a community. I personally wouldn't consider owning an ebike but they don't bother me in the slightest. What does bother me is the enormous amount of the ebike community I see ignoring signs and bulling their way around the trails, forcing people off the side of exposed trails so they can pass at obnoxious speeds on climbs.

I'm not saying there aren't plenty of respectable ebikers, I've passed many older fellas who ride like they would on a regular bike and follow all of the trail etiquette they're used to. On the flip side, I've seen plenty of ebikers act like twats. I've had people force me off the trail, ride my ass on climbs and seen them sitting and chatting right next to No Ebike signs.

At this point I look at most ebikers the same way I look at boomers out on the trail with their dogs unleashed. They think the outdoors belongs to them and no one else's experience matters.
I guess in your part of the world - one region and one country - out of 200 countries, that’s your experience. Out here in Vancouver, North Vancouver, Squamish, Whistler, Mount Sumas etc., there really isn’t a trail that bans eBikes. They’re looked at as one and the same. Perhaps you should discuss your concerns with the government there and look at options for new trails on additional mountains as the sport grows and makes riding busier, etc.
 

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I guess in your part of the world - one region and one country - out of 200 countries, that’s your experience. Out here in Vancouver, North Vancouver, Squamish, Whistler, Mount Sumas etc., there really isn’t a trail that bans eBikes. They’re looked at as one and the same. Perhaps you should discuss your concerns with the government there and look at options for new trails on additional mountains as the sport grows and makes riding busier, etc.
What exactly would discussing my concerns with local government do? I don't think the local government can make a rule against people being douchebags. As far as Im concerned it's just something we will have to learn to live with.

I'm not opposed to ebikes using the same trails as me as long as the trail manager and land owner say it's cool, and they're not blowing out corners with their 60lb bikes. It's the attitude that annoys me.
 

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It will be like a cartoon I once saw in the back of Dirt Rag in the mid 90's. Two older riders sitting on a park bench clowning two younger riders about the good ol days. Working for it, breaking a sweat ect. The two newer riders are looking at them like WTF. The last frame of the cartoon shows the younger riders ride away, their bikes attached to rails.
 

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Discussion Starter · #106 ·
What exactly would discussing my concerns with local government do? I don't think the local government can make a rule against people being douchebags. As far as Im concerned it's just something we will have to learn to live with.

I'm not opposed to ebikes using the same trails as me as long as the trail manager and land owner say it's cool, and they're not blowing out corners with their 60lb bikes. It's the attitude that annoys me.
Presumably government owns a lot of land and is responsible for trail management. If that’s not the case there and it’s private property, then take up your grievances with the property owner.

In Canada a lot of land is owned by the Crown (our Federal government) as well as provincial and local governments. Our municipalities are responsible for managing these lands and any trails on them. Regulations, etc. would be their responsibility and they would be the folks to lobby and bring grievances to.
 

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Presumably government owns a lot of land and is responsible for trail management. If that’s not the case there and it’s private property, then take up your grievances with the property owner.

In Canada a lot of land is owned by the Crown (our Federal government) as well as provincial and local governments. Our municipalities are responsible for managing these lands and any trails on them. Regulations, etc. would be their responsibility and they would be the folks to lobby and bring grievances to.
I understand what you're saying, but how exactly do you think they're going to enforce the things I'm talking about? They put signs up that say No Ebikes and people ride right past them. They could put another sign next to that saying "don't ride other people's asses and force them off the trails on climbs" but they're going to pay just as much attention to that sign as they do the others.

This is why people advocate for having ebikes removed completely and actually enforced. I'm not sure I'd personally go that far, I just want people to not act like dickbags.
 

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Discussion Starter · #108 ·
I understand what you're saying, but how exactly do you think they're going to enforce the things I'm talking about? They put signs up that say No Ebikes and people ride right past them. They could put another sign next to that saying "don't ride other people's asses and force them off the trails on climbs" but they're going to pay just as much attention to that sign as they do the others.

This is why people advocate for having ebikes removed completely and actually enforced. I'm not sure I'd personally go that far, I just want people to not act like dickbags.
It’s called bylaw enforcement if it’s local government and fines can be levied against people now and then for compliance. Otherwise, for private land, creative solutions can be discussed. For instance, while I don’t know the federal and state laws in the US for context around this, but the private land owner may contract at common law with delegates who can levy fines against people using the trails in a prohibited way. Those people using the trail must agree to the posted trail rules. Also, there could be restricted (locked access) where each trail user has to sign up and agree to terms, etc. etc.
 

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  • eBike. All of these modern bikes will have an electric drivetrain.
  • No derailleur: complete gearbox built into the electric drive as one unit with electronic,
  • Regenerative braking, like on electric cars. So after burning some battery life on the climb, on your way down the mountain, you'll be charging the battery when applying your brakes. Regeneration may occur at certain speeds also without applying the brakes.
  • Sophisticated integration of software with the bike so riders can customize aspects of the electric drive, as well as the electronic brakes and even adjustments to frame geometry.
  • A more sealed off design when it comes to the entire drivetrain.
  • Adaptive suspension common: suspension that adapts to the terrain you're on, adjusting travel accordingly.
  • Sealed rear shocks where both front and rear shocks are digitally adjusted with software.
I agree you’re exactly right—they will move all MTB drivetrain into a motor-gearbox drive unit that’ll be in the bottom bracket area. For some reason, the industry is hellbent on pushing motorbikes and this is the obvious way to integrate the motor. Further, the presence of the motor will finally overcome the intractable problem of internal gearboxes--that they’re not as efficient as chain drive on sprockets.

I disagree about regen braking tho. Too hard to do blended braking and there’s not enough traction in the rear wheel to make it worthwhile on a downhill. Also, it would have to be shaft-drive to power the motor as a generator during braking (you can’t push on a chain).
 

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Just because you have 10 grand burning a hole in your pocket doesn't mean you automatically get a seat at the table. You may be used to thinking that way, but it doesn't make it right.
lmfao. What? are you another internet tough guy with your little cadre of “locals”, Reminds me of that scene from Point Break. Grow up.

Is that what irks you? that I have a nice new 10k bike. Are you jealous of people that have worked hard and made something with their life?. Btw, I have a whole lotta more to spend on this sport. I’m an MTB advertiser‘s dream

What gives me a seat at the table is the fact that I own a bike that I ride, I joined this forum, and as per the rules I have one voice to speak up with and voice my opinion. My seat at the table is as good and rightful as yours

If you don’t like my opinion then oppose it with your own opinion. If you don’t like my seat at the table then start your own safe space where you can censor whomever you’d like. The weak and the cowardly and those that lack well reasoned ideas always prefer cancel fascism and bullying over freedom and tolerance.
 

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Btw, I have a whole lotta more to spend on this sport. I’m an MTB advertiser‘s dream
This.

This is the future of mountain biking: an aging, wealthy demographic, targeted by manufacturers who will produce ever more expensive, motor-focused, high tech bikes. With their money, this demographic will legislate fee-based access to public lands that they'll share exclusively with equestrians, and people riding Boston Dynamics hiking robots.

The future. Smell it coming.
 

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This.

This is the future of mountain biking: an aging, wealthy demographic, targeted by manufacturers who will produce ever more expensive, motor-focused, high tech bikes. With their money, this demographic will legislate fee-based access to public lands that they'll share exclusively with equestrians, and people riding Boston Dynamics hiking robots.

The future. Smell it coming.
Aging? Every demographic is aging. That’s what people do.
I would vehemently oppose fee based access to parks as that is anti-democratic. So speak for yourself. (Not to mention the fact there are already many parks with fees)
The idea here is to get more people biking and hopefully opening more public lands to trail riding if it can be done in an ecologically sensitive manner,

See with democracy and capitalism, hard work, effort and innovation are virtues as is individual humanity and liberty. While not without it’s flaws, It has marked the updward swing of mankind and fought off the brutal oppression of fascism and communism. There have been more equal “utopias” but they needed to build a wall to keep people in not out. There’s still Venezuela and Cuba, maybe the “egalitarian“ riding trails there would be more to you liking.

That’s the other future. You can smell the sewer water, death and political prisons.
 

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I read the first dozen or so posts in this thread.
That was enough to see where this thread was going.
After doing so, I suggest the thread title be changed to: “The future of the ebike.”
You see, mountain bikes don’t have motors.
To clarify for those not following along: mountain biking and ebiking are two disparate sports.
Anyone who doesn’t grasp the fundamental difference between the mountain bike and the ebike might easily confuse yet another two-wheeled contraption into the mix: the dirt bike.
So let’s either bring dirt bikes into this conversation or more appropriately, do one of the following:
  1. Rename the thread as suggested above
  2. Keep the discussion to the mountain bike as the thread title suggests. That is to say, the mountain bicycle. That’s the two-wheeled thing that lacks any motor whatsoever.
Thank you.
=sParty
 

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At this point I look at most ebikers the same way I look at boomers out on the trail with their dogs unleashed. They think the outdoors belongs to them and no one else's experience matters.
In my experience the most common owners of dogs on trails seem to be women. Maybe you should direct your bigotry in their direction.
Bigotry, lol. Now calling boomers boomers is bigotry? If I call a millennial a millennial is that also bigotry?
No, SSS, he’s saying you are, as usual,
lumping all persons of a certain age in with a small group you have seen with dogs.
Gathered the relevant points, and fixed some wording to preserve the (likely to be mod deleted) point. This boomers-are-the-boogeyman schtick is completely ridiculous and banal.
 

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No dumbass, he’s saying you are, as usual,
lumping all persons of a certain age in with a small group you have seen with dogs.
Gathered the relevant points, and fixed some wording to preserve the (likely to be mod deleted) point. This boomers-are-the-boogeyman schtick is completely ridiculous and banal.
Christ you people are so dramatic. I never said people with their dogs off leash are the Boogeyman, I said they were an annoyance. I'm not sure what you want me to say when the vast majority of people I see on the trails with their dogs unleashed are of a certain age bracket.

Would it make your guys feelings feel better if I pointed out something annoying that my generation does?
 
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